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Off topic: 泰晤士(TIMES)四合院儿
Penulis thread: QHE
QHE
Amerika Serikat (AS)
Local time: 23:44
Inggris ke Mandarin
+ ...
May 4, 2014

David Lin wrote: 超越时空

这几天讨论了这么多超越时间的问题,突然读到一段有关 ”时间“ 的描述,与大家分享一下:

“西方的神学之父圣奥古斯丁(St Augustine)说过:「时间是什么?我本来似乎还知道;但一被问及,就反而什么都不知道了。」

”有太多方法可以用来定义时间,以致没有一种是完全可靠的。在愈来愈深的皱纹里,在磨损漫漶的
字碑里,在对过去的恋栈及对未来的惶恐里,几乎都有时间的遗迹。“

http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/267752-試譯失敗經歷-page13.html#2293034



Thank you, David.

是啊, 时间是什么? 简单直接的答案可能是: 看一下自己的手表, 手机, 显示屏, 日历.
可是, 时间同样悄然融入在宇宙万物的轮回中, 融入在人文历史的长河中; 无所不在, 却无从定义.

谈及时间, 即刻就想到 Einstein 简单而深奥的相对论. 从物理学角度诠释相对论当然是力所不及的; 只是想, 虽然表面上事事都随时更新变换, 但是总会存在相对不变的内在 Value; 自然世界如此, 人亦如此: 或真诚善良平和, 或虚伪狡诈争霸.

谈及超越时间, 眼前浮现出 Salvador Dali 那幅超现实的 The Persistence of Memory: 精确的时间溶化软化, 就象融入记忆里的时间永远留滞在某个时间段.

Saint Augustine 也说 过:
“How can the past and future be, when the past no longer is, and the future is not yet? As for the present, if it were always present and never moved on to become the past, it would not be time, but eternity.”

时间是不是同时蕴涵了有限和无限以至永恒的呢 ?

∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞
∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞


泰晤士 (TIMES) 四合院儿

冥思着属于我们每个人的时间, 豁然产生了起始构造一个时空庭苑的想法;
名字近在咫尺:泰晤士(TIMES)四合院儿 。

有个这样的四合院儿, 大家不是可以谈论天下时间事件, 逸事趣闻吗? 就象在国内, 左邻右舍, 亲朋好友, 常常在大院里天南海北畅所欲言的, 对吧?

泰晤士(TIMES)四合院儿呈现在论坛时, 四合院儿就算是属于大家的了, 院子的版竹(主), 班竹, 伴竹, 办竹, 当然就是各位论坛朋友们了


话说四合院 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfPnFflR-vs

话说四合院 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHwzuy2CPRc

四合院儿

四四方方的一个小院儿 咱们北京人儿就住在里边儿 早早晚晚常见面儿

咱亲亲热热火一团儿 春天的槐花 秋天的枣儿 满院子扑噜扑噜

直掉那榆树钱儿 你包饺子我来拌馅儿 他唱戏来你拉弦儿

大爷大妈勤照看儿 您自管放心去上班儿 老街坊又不是那一两天儿

四合院儿 四合院儿 四合院儿的笑声四季不断线 四合院儿 四合院儿

四合院儿的歌声 抓心挠肝儿多得冒尖儿 多得冒尖儿 呀哈嘿

四四方方的一个小院儿 咱们北京人儿就住在里边 清风明月常作伴儿

咱欢欢乐乐小桃园儿 冬天的雪人儿 夏天的雨 满院子踢哩踏啦

孩子们闹着玩儿 手里捧着一把蒲扇儿 晚来树下侃大山儿

你一段来他一段儿 那一壶酽茶围一圈儿 天下事全在百姓嘴里边儿

四合院儿 四合院儿 四合院儿的笑声四季不断线 四合院儿 四合院儿

四合院儿的歌声 抓心挠肝儿多得冒尖儿 多得冒尖儿 呀哈嘿






[Edited at 2014-05-04 14:29 GMT]

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J.H. Wang
Cina
Local time: 11:44
Anggota sejak (2007)
Inggris ke Mandarin
+ ...
时间是什么? May 4, 2014

QHE wrote:

David Lin wrote: 超越时空

这几天讨论了这么多超越时间的问题,突然读到一段有关 ”时间“ 的描述,与大家分享一下:

“西方的神学之父圣奥古斯丁(St Augustine)说过:「时间是什么?我本来似乎还知道;但一被问及,就反而什么都不知道了。」

”有太多方法可以用来定义时间,以致没有一种是完全可靠的。在愈来愈深的皱纹里,在磨损漫漶的
字碑里,在对过去的恋栈及对未来的惶恐里,几乎都有时间的遗迹。“

http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/267752-試譯失敗經歷-page13.html#2293034



Thank you, David.

是啊, 时间是什么? 简单直接的答案可能是: 看一下自己的手表, 手机, 显示屏, 日历.
可是, 时间同样悄然融入在宇宙万物的轮回中, 融入在人文历史的长河中; 无所不在, 却无从定义.

谈及时间, 即刻就想到 Einstein 简单而深奥的相对论. 从物理学角度诠释相对论当然是力所不及的; 只是想, 虽然表面上事事都随时更新变换, 但是总会存在相对不变的内在 Value; 自然世界如此, 人亦如此: 或真诚善良平和, 或虚伪狡诈争霸.

谈及超越时间, 眼前浮现出 Salvador Dali 那幅超现实的 The Persistence of Memory: 精确的时间溶化软化, 就象融入记忆里的时间永远留滞在某个时间段.

Saint Augustine 也说 过:
“How can the past and future be, when the past no longer is, and the future is not yet? As for the present, if it were always present and never moved on to become the past, it would not be time, but eternity.”

时间是不是同时蕴涵了有限和无限以至永恒的呢 ?

∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞
∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞




这是一个深奥而又有趣的问题!

我也曾经思考过这个问题。我认为:我们所意识到的时间本质上就是物质运动。我这么说的根据是,我们必须用某个东西的运动来度量时间,比如说:我们戴的手表,必须用秒针、分针、时针的行走来计量时间。其他的各种钟表也不例外。这是因为,我们只能用运动来度量运动。假如世界上的一切运动都停止了,我们可以说,时间停止了。

不知道各位以为然否?:-)


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wherestip  Identity Verified
Amerika Serikat (AS)
Local time: 22:44
Mandarin ke Inggris
+ ...
海阔天空 May 4, 2014

Great idea, QHE. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and starting this thread.

QHE wrote:

话说四合院 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfPnFflR-vs



That 龙安志 character owns 3 of those properties! Seems like he also likes to acquire multiples when he sees the ingenuity in something. As mentioned a couple of times before, I do too; the difference between us, I guess, is he goes for the big ticket items.

China probably doesn't have property taxes - at least not any significant amount to speak of. That is something very different compared to almost all the states here in the US.


[Edited at 2014-05-05 01:03 GMT]


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Phil Hand  Identity Verified
Cina
Local time: 11:44
Mandarin ke Inggris
Days May 4, 2014

What are days for?
Days are where we live.
They come, they wake us
Time and time over.
They are to be happy in:
Where can we live but days?

Ah, solving that question
Brings the priest and the doctor
In their long coats
Running over the fields.

《日子》

日子是幹什麼用的?
日子是我們活著的地方。
它們到臨,它們一次又一次地
喚醒我們。
它們是要快樂度過的:
除了日子我們還能活在那裡?

啊,為了解答這個問題
使得牧師和醫生
穿著長長的外袍
在田野上奔跑。

--菲利浦‧拉金--


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wherestip  Identity Verified
Amerika Serikat (AS)
Local time: 22:44
Mandarin ke Inggris
+ ...
A timeless event in modern Chinese history May 4, 2014

http://news.163.com/14/0504/10/9RD50MN00001124J.html

纪念 95 年前在北大发起的 五四学生运动


[Edited at 2014-05-04 23:03 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
Amerika Serikat (AS)
Local time: 22:44
Mandarin ke Inggris
+ ...
笨鸟先飞 May 5, 2014

wherestip wrote:

That 龙安志 character owns 3 of those properties! Seems like he also likes to acquire multiples when he sees the ingenuity in something. As mentioned a couple of times before, I do too; the difference between us, I guess, is he goes for the big ticket items.

China probably doesn't have property taxes - at least not any significant amount to speak of. That is something very different compared to almost all the states here in the US.



IMO, here's some good advice on reducing the risk of being too heavily invested in the residential real estate market. I'd heed it myself if I were living in China.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101474091


[Edited at 2014-05-05 01:50 GMT]


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QHE
Amerika Serikat (AS)
Local time: 23:44
Inggris ke Mandarin
+ ...
TOPIK PERMULAAN
相对 May 5, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:
我认为:我们所意识到的时间本质上就是物质运动。


J. H.,

没有静止的参照物,就无法判断物体的运动;同样,运动速度相同的物体是相对静止的。其实,钟表的指针是为感官而存在。计算机内部的时钟,我们体内的生物钟都不需要指针。我的理解是时空是不可分的,就象阴阳太极图。


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James_xia  Identity Verified
Cina
Anggota
Inggris ke Mandarin
+ ...
100年以后谁在乎这个 May 5, 2014


...时间同样悄然融入在宇宙万物的轮回中, 融入在人文历史的长河中; 无所不在, 却无从定义.

谈及时间, 即刻就想到 Einstein 简单而深奥的相对论. 从物理学角度诠释相对论当然是力所不及的; 只是想, 虽然表面上事事都随时更新变换, 但是总会存在相对不变的内在 Value; 自然世界如此, 人亦如此: 或真诚善良平和, 或虚伪狡诈争霸.

谈及超越时间, 眼前浮现出 Salvador Dali 那幅超现实的 The Persistence of Memory: 精确的时间溶化软化, 就象融入记忆里的时间永远留滞在某个时间段.

Saint Augustine 也说 过:
“How can the past and future be, when the past no longer is, and the future is not yet? As for the present, if it were always present and never moved on to become the past, it would not be time, but eternity.”

时间是不是同时蕴涵了有限和无限以至永恒的呢 ?


如果没记错的话,这好象是QHE在中文论坛的第一个开贴吧:)

时间是一个大话题,它是短暂的,如人的生命,宇宙也有尽头;若有一件东西能够不断地延续下去,如是不朽的作品抑或人间真情,时间在这里也可以是长久的,甚至永恒的。不知这里有人是否记得王家卫1994年拍的那部经典电影《东邪西毒》,它的英文名就是“The Ashes of Time” ,看完有一种沧桑顿悟——争尽天下而最终都不免化为时间的灰烬...


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QHE
Amerika Serikat (AS)
Local time: 23:44
Inggris ke Mandarin
+ ...
TOPIK PERMULAAN
谢谢 May 5, 2014

James_xia wrote:
如果没记错的话,这好象是QHE在中文论坛的第一个开贴吧:)


是啊,James, 终于有了点儿进步。不过发贴的时候还是心虚,看到大家来到院子里,才放下了心 :)。

其实论坛的交流,无论观点异同,总是或多或少启发个人的思考。不过,大家除探讨深奥的时间问题,应该劳逸结合,聊聊天下事,侃侃大山儿什么的(象“四合院儿”歌里唱的)。


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J.H. Wang
Cina
Local time: 11:44
Anggota sejak (2007)
Inggris ke Mandarin
+ ...
尝试翻译一下这段文字 May 5, 2014

QHE wrote:

Saint Augustine 也说 过:
“How can the past and future be, when the past no longer is, and the future is not yet? As for the present, if it were always present and never moved on to become the past, it would not be time, but eternity.”


我对圣奥古斯丁其实了解并不太多,不过,也知道他是位大哲学家。下面我尝试把他这段文字翻译成中文,供大家参考:

既然过去已不存在,未来尚未存在,那么过去和未来怎么能够存在?至于现在,如果它永远是现在,从不前进而成为过去,它就不会是时间,而是永恒。

欢迎大家拍砖!:-)


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J.H. Wang
Cina
Local time: 11:44
Anggota sejak (2007)
Inggris ke Mandarin
+ ...
时间与记忆 May 5, 2014

QHE wrote:

J.H. Wang wrote:
我认为:我们所意识到的时间本质上就是物质运动。


J. H.,

其实,钟表的指针是为感官而存在。



就像 The Persistence of Memory (记忆的持存)所表明的一样,其实人的时间观念一方面来源于外在的物质世界的运动,另一方面也来源于人对这种运动的感知和记忆。这两个方面一起构成了人的时间观念。


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J.H. Wang
Cina
Local time: 11:44
Anggota sejak (2007)
Inggris ke Mandarin
+ ...
我的疑问 May 5, 2014

Phil Hand wrote:

What are days for?
Days are where we live.
They come, they wake us
Time and time over.
They are to be happy in:
Where can we live but days?

Ah, solving that question
Brings the priest and the doctor
In their long coats
Running over the fields.

《日子》

日子是幹什麼用的?
日子是我們活著的地方。
它們到臨,它們一次又一次地
喚醒我們。
它們是要快樂度過的:
除了日子我們還能活在那裡?

啊,為了解答這個問題
使得牧師和醫生
穿著長長的外袍
在田野上奔跑。

--菲利浦‧拉金--


这里的 doctor 的翻译是否有问题? doctor 这里是否应为博学之士而不是医生,否则感觉有点怪怪的。

另外,他们为什么要穿着长袍在田野上奔跑,是否他们有在田野里思考的习惯?

向各位请教,先谢谢了!


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wherestip  Identity Verified
Amerika Serikat (AS)
Local time: 22:44
Mandarin ke Inggris
+ ...
A poem about mortality? May 5, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

Phil Hand wrote:

What are days for?
Days are where we live.
They come, they wake us
Time and time over.
They are to be happy in:
Where can we live but days?

Ah, solving that question
Brings the priest and the doctor
In their long coats
Running over the fields.

《日子》

日子是幹什麼用的?
日子是我們活著的地方。
它們到臨,它們一次又一次地
喚醒我們。
它們是要快樂度過的:
除了日子我們還能活在那裡?

啊,為了解答這個問題
使得牧師和醫生
穿著長長的外袍
在田野上奔跑。

--菲利浦‧拉金--


这里的 doctor 的翻译是否有问题? doctor 这里是否应为博学之士而不是医生,否则感觉有点怪怪的。

另外,他们为什么要穿着长袍在田野上奔跑,是否他们有在田野里思考的习惯?

向各位请教,先谢谢了!



J.H.,

Medical doctors traditionally made house calls to assist in emergencies, illnesses, minor ailments, trauma, and so on. And so did priests - to read those on their deathbeds their last rites, for example. Hence they ran over the fields to either come to the rescue or perform their perfunctory duties, whichever might be the case.



https://humanpractice.com/blog/posts/history-of-the-house-call

by Heidi Siegrist
MARCH 17, 2014



...

Remembering the traditional house call


Up until the 20th century, the majority of primary care doctors saw patients in their homes, and even in 1940, 40% of family physicians regularly made house calls. Those who can remember a time when house calls were common often remember them with nostalgia: patients were able to remain at home where they felt comfortable, and never had to sit in waiting rooms where they worried about catching an illness.

Meanwhile doctors, although spending considerably more time on the road, were able to interact with patients on a more personal level and gained a better sense of their overall well-being. Seeing patients as individuals with full lives made the work, for some doctors, more fulfilling.

This intimacy, though, was a fading dynamic of a fading world--as more doctors entered specialties rather than family practice and insurance policies shifted, the house call became less and less common. By 1980, the number of house calls had dropped to just 1%.

...



priest -- one's spiritual needs, spiritual salvation
doctor -- one's physical well-being, physical salvation


[Edited at 2014-05-05 20:05 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
Amerika Serikat (AS)
Local time: 22:44
Mandarin ke Inggris
+ ...
Some traditional functions performed by a priest May 5, 2014

Last Rites ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_rites
http://www.diobr.org/phocadownload/Worship/wtcap_home_hospital.pdf

House Blessing ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_blessing
http://therosarytrail.com/house-blessing/


~*~*~*~*~*~*

... Anyway, the main message of the poem in question, to me, is to appreciate one's finite time on earth, and to celebrate each day with thankfulness and happiness.


[Edited at 2014-05-05 20:10 GMT]


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泰晤士(TIMES)四合院儿

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