| Páginas sobre el tema: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10] > | Email notification of a reduction in rates from a translation agency Autor de la hebra: Lena Nemeth
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| I reckon there must be two companies with the same name. | Jul 21, 2013 |
This is obviously not the company that claims on its website to have "maintained an upward trajectory throughout the recession". Nor can it possibly be the company which, in January, recruited an extra 92 staff after "securing new business worth £12 million".
| | | | | Suivez l'argent! | Jul 21, 2013 |
philgoddard wrote:
I reckon there must be two companies with the same name.
This is obviously not the company that claims on its website to have "maintained an upward trajectory throughout the recession". Nor can it possibly be the company which, in January, recruited an extra 92 staff after "securing new business worth £12 million".
Two companies? If that's the case, there must be tax reasons and a clever accountant to mastermind the setup.
The figures from poor company struggling with recession are presented to the tax authorities. The multimillionaire company uses some legal contrivance to be almost tax-free and to 'exploit' the former; its figures are proudly exhibited to potential investors.
I've seen it happen, and have a rough idea on how it's done, however NDAs prevent me from providing any further detail.
The problem is that such setups are never built to exploit their vendors, which hold the poor company in high regard. So maybe that accountant either isn't so clever, or is being sabotaged by greedy top management.
| | | | | Another option | Jul 22, 2013 |
Anyone who has access to the book of faces may choose to take a look at what's happening by the Watercooler for Translators and Interpreters and bring up the discussion there after joining in...
| | | | IrimiConsulting 
Suecia
Local time: 22:21
Miembro 2010
inglés al sueco
+ ...
| Got my response today | Jul 22, 2013 |
I responded and was clear about not being able to decrease my rates, inspired by some of the other posts in this thread. This is the client's response:
Dear Peter,
Thank you very much for your response and for explaining your position. I am more than happy to put you on the rates you have specified, as we value your services as a linguist and would like to keep you on our database, but must advise that this may result in a decrease in assignments received fro... See more I responded and was clear about not being able to decrease my rates, inspired by some of the other posts in this thread. This is the client's response:
Dear Peter,
Thank you very much for your response and for explaining your position. I am more than happy to put you on the rates you have specified, as we value your services as a linguist and would like to keep you on our database, but must advise that this may result in a decrease in assignments received from certain clients.
Thank you again for your time and if there is anything I can help with please let me know.
Kind regards,
Happy ending? We'll see. ▲ Collapse
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Lena Nemeth
Reino Unido
Local time: 21:21
polaco al inglés
PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA | Any resolutions? | Jul 22, 2013 |
Hello everyone!
I've been closely following this thread since its inception, however very little has been written about the resolution of this issue...
I was contacted by the company recently by phone during which I managed to (diplomatically) address all of the issues I have had with the company and, specifically, with their notorious email. I should clarify at this point that I have never had any of the issues with this company that have been specified in other posts.... See more Hello everyone!
I've been closely following this thread since its inception, however very little has been written about the resolution of this issue...
I was contacted by the company recently by phone during which I managed to (diplomatically) address all of the issues I have had with the company and, specifically, with their notorious email. I should clarify at this point that I have never had any of the issues with this company that have been specified in other posts. I have always been paid on time and a decent amount of work has come my way; I have never had any issues with PMs, either. I made sure to emphasize the nature of our previous collaboration and how shocked I was that my profession and work would be so undervalued by the company. In the end, I was pleased with the outcome and I did not receive any threats of less work as a result.
How have you all fared? In light of the BB/LWA 'scandal', I suppose a mass protest of this company is out of the question... ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Sustainability of the profession | Jul 22, 2013 |
I've been following this thread with interest despite not having received the email myself, as I've never worked for the company. They did offer me a job once a few years ago, but I decided not to work for them because of what I had read about them. With hindsight, I'm glad I made that decision.
The tactics used by both of the companies I know of which have attempted this kind of exercise involved the rather crude carrot-and-stick approach of a possibly empty promise and a threat, o... See more I've been following this thread with interest despite not having received the email myself, as I've never worked for the company. They did offer me a job once a few years ago, but I decided not to work for them because of what I had read about them. With hindsight, I'm glad I made that decision.
The tactics used by both of the companies I know of which have attempted this kind of exercise involved the rather crude carrot-and-stick approach of a possibly empty promise and a threat, or warning, or however you prefer to put it: accept and you stand to pick up more work, refuse and your workload may evaporate. And there's another thing they have in common: they both appear to put a tremendous amount of energy into expanding, taking over other companies and hoovering up as many government and corporate contracts as they can, with an emphasis on ever-lower rates for translators and scant regard for maintaining good working relationships with those who are most experienced and capable. This kind of "notification" is not conducive to a good working relationship, as can be seen from the responses it has generated.
At the moment, we still have plenty of alternative sources of work as there are lots of other clients and agencies out there that don't operate in this way, but those alternative sources may start to disappear if they are squeezed out of the industry by the price-slashing bargain basements or get taken over by them. If that happens, what we will be left with is a deprofessionalised industry in which we may struggle to make a living that makes our education, training and effort worthwhile. So I hope that those who still work for the agency despite their unhappiness about this "notification" (which I feel is not the right way of viewing it - it's a request that you can say no to!) will reconsider in the light of what they now know. Awareness of what is happening in the wider industry is essential, and irresponsible agencies profit when it is absent. It's in the interests of all of us to support agencies that behave responsibly towards their customers by making sure they deliver high-quality work and helping translators to remain in the profession by giving them an adequate incentive. That's the kind of behaviour that will help to sustain our profession. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lena Nemeth
Reino Unido
Local time: 21:21
polaco al inglés
PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA | Awareness is essential | Jul 22, 2013 |
Peter Shortall wrote:
Awareness of what is happening in the wider industry is essential, and irresponsible agencies profit when it is absent.
Absolutely right! Awareness coupled with research are the key components of success in my opinion, in the sense that it is necessary to research your industry as well as the agencies for which you work. The person I spoke with on the phone seemed quite surprised for some reason that I knew the email had been sent en masse, and I really appreciate all of the information everyone found regarding the financial aspects of the company. I did my own research and, as I mentioned earlier, managed to locate a blog written by the CEO of the company on which he specifically discussed rates and financial matters (i.e. the recession and hard times). Armed with all of this information, I made a logical and (I feel) diplomatic argument that the representative on the phone could not refute. This is due solely to professional awareness and a little investigation!
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Lena Nemeth wrote:
How have you all fared? In light of the BB/LWA 'scandal', I suppose a mass protest of this company is out of the question...
Hello Lena, in spite of the reverse you experienced you (and others) are still welcome to support the joint action proposal at http://goo.gl/4d5WQ because the specific ethical issues with misleading arguments in the original e-mail persist no matter the rates etc. (not talking about the fact that they say to some that sticking to the original rates will/might mean less work). Their communication was wrong, and that won't get fixed even if they promise 100% increase of rates to their translators.
PS Recently, several new negative Blue Board entries appeared.
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Lena Nemeth
Reino Unido
Local time: 21:21
polaco al inglés
PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA
Tomas Mosler, MITI wrote:
PS Recently, several new negative Blue Board entries appeared.
Tomas, that is fantastic news! I'll give the survey a look, too -- thank you!
| | | | Oleg Rudavin
Ucrania
Local time: 23:21
Miembro 2003
inglés al ucraniano
+ ...
| There can be a resolution to the specific issue but the trend is still there... | Jul 23, 2013 |
Lena Nemeth wrote: I've been closely following this thread since its inception, however very little has been written about the resolution of this issue...
Peter Shortall wrote: Awareness of what is happening in the wider industry is essential,
We are about to find ourselves in the new reality of the translation market turning into a typical industry.
A while ago a German car here meant German brand, German design, German manufacture. Now, a locally offered "German car" means a car under German brand assembled in Russia of parts manufactured in China for the most part. All of it has been presumably done to reduce the costs - obviously for the company, as the selling prices are only increasing.
I expect that in a few years from now, the structure of the translation industry will be about the same, the geographic reference excluded.
The MLV's like the one that triggered the discussion are expansing their share of the market (in my opinion, it will reach some 80% in 3-5 years). The chain (should I call it "food chain"?) extends from the former "end client - (translation agency) - translator" to "end client – (local MLV office) – MLV (head) office – MLV regional office – local LSP – (local translation company or two) – translator". In a chain like that, translators can't receive more than 1/5 of the price MLV's sell their services to end clients at.
This trend is significant in a number of segments of the translation market (not so in a few other segments and, luckily for some of us, hardly feasible in certain cases or under certain circumstances) and will definitely affect the entire industry in the long run.
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Oleg Rudavin wrote:
A while ago a German car here meant German brand, German design, German manufacture. Now, a locally offered "German car" means a car under German brand assembled in Russia of parts manufactured in China for the most part. All of it has been presumably done to reduce the costs - obviously for the company, as the selling prices are only increasing.
I'm not sure if this is the best "production" example, as car production is heavily regulated to start with (i.e. nobody cared about airbags 30 years ago, but the translation was expected to be just as good back then as it is now).
Secondly, re the selling prices etc.
http://www.freeby50.com/2008/11/history-of-new-car-costs-and-average.html
(This is not to say the prices are not increasing in absolute numbers, but it is only one part of the story.)
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Normal translation (I don't consider proofreading etc. now, but see below) is created by one man. There are no "parts" to be assembled. The example with MLVs below would mean, in the automotive world, that company ABC sells car 123 to company EFG to sell it as car 456, or that a retailer in country abc normally buys new cars from the producer and then sell them to a retailer in country efg (instead of that retailer getting them directly from the producer) which I don't think is the case (yes, there are some projects/models with shared production/parts but still Toyota Aygo is not created so that a finished Citroen C1 is imported to another country and reassembled to get Aygo).
The MLV's like the one that triggered the discussion are expansing their share of the market (in my opinion, it will reach some 80% in 3-5 years). The chain (should I call it "food chain"?) extends from the former "end client - (translation agency) - translator" to "end client – (local MLV office) – MLV (head) office – MLV regional office – local LSP – (local translation company or two) – translator".
If a MLV wants to reduce the costs, how does creating x individual offices or using additional agents/mediators support this? The chain cannot be cheap and complex at the same time.
If it is meant so that one company does the translation, another proofreading, another the final checks etc., then that looks to me rather inefficient than efficient in terms of total costs (no matter what share is paid to translators/proofreaders). If anything, local MLV office in country A should have the same database of A->B translators as a local MLV office in country B.
Secondly, what would be the purpose of having an additional army of PMs etc. to handle the very same amount (at least relatively) of projects/translators available in the world? Economies of scale should be present. (IMHO it cannot be applied to translators as their work cannot be merged, concentrated or accelerated beyond a certain limit - if we are talking about serious projects.) I mean, surely a typical private company won't create new administrative jobs just to create jobs or to share the margin with 5 "mediating" branches instead of with 1 or 2 if it can work as before? Or if it cannot work, please can you elaborate on the reasons/benefits of the potential new scheme to the MLVs etc.? Thanks.
| | | | Oleg Rudavin
Ucrania
Local time: 23:21
Miembro 2003
inglés al ucraniano
+ ...
Yes I fully understand the difference between automotive and translation industries, translators returning a 80%-100% finished product being one of them. The comparison had to serve another purpose (though I do admit I could use a better example.)
The discussion focuses on the situation at our end of the chain, but does anyone know how the cost of translation services for end clients has been changing in the past years? 10 years ago, in a three-part scheme, I received 50% to 70% of what th... See more Yes I fully understand the difference between automotive and translation industries, translators returning a 80%-100% finished product being one of them. The comparison had to serve another purpose (though I do admit I could use a better example.)
The discussion focuses on the situation at our end of the chain, but does anyone know how the cost of translation services for end clients has been changing in the past years? 10 years ago, in a three-part scheme, I received 50% to 70% of what the agency I worked for charged their clients. (To avoid ambiguity, I'm talking about "pure" translation with no extra services such as DTP, etc,) In a multi-link chain of today, the same "pure" translation is likely to cost more for the end clients and bring less to translators, that's what I wanted to say.
Tomas Mosler, MITI wrote: If a MLV wants to reduce the costs...
The purpose is not to reduce the cost but to increase the profit, cost reduction and creation of new offices being just two of the many possible ways to do it.
Secondly, what would be the purpose of having an additional army ... can you elaborate on the reasons/benefits of the potential new scheme to the MLVs etc.? Thanks.
Benefits? None, as far as I can see. Reasons? I believe Darwin and his followers explained most of it, if not all, when they elaborated their struggle for survival theory.
[Edited at 2013-07-23 11:54 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Peter Shortall wrote:
The tactics used by both of the companies I know of which have attempted this kind of exercise involved the rather crude carrot-and-stick approach of a possibly empty promise and a threat, or warning, or however you prefer to put it: accept and you stand to pick up more work, refuse and your workload may evaporate.
From a homebrew-psychological point of view, buying the promise may expose the translator to more requests of the same kind or even outright expose the translator as being a soft, gullible person. In fact, some people's approach to business is such that they will continue to squeeze the lemon until they meet decided resistance. This they call the optimisation of costs. Basically, this actually sort of is what cost optimisation is about (unless some reasonable motivation-sensitive safety valves are included in the scheme).
As for the conseques of standing your ground, they can 1) forget, 2) be pressured into hiring you as you're good or you fill a specific niche where you don't have much competition or both, 3) actually respect you for standing your ground.
And there's another thing they have in common: they both appear to put a tremendous amount of energy into expanding, taking over other companies and hoovering up as many government and corporate contracts as they can, with an emphasis on ever-lower rates for translators and scant regard for maintaining good working relationships with those who are most experienced and capable. This kind of "notification" is not conducive to a good working relationship, as can be seen from the responses it has generated.
Expanding agencies need to understand that translators shouldn't be paying the bills for their risky strategies that may result in the whole house coming down crumbling.
At the moment, we still have plenty of alternative sources of work as there are lots of other clients and agencies out there that don't operate in this way, but those alternative sources may start to disappear if they are squeezed out of the industry by the price-slashing bargain basements or get taken over by them.
Exactly. If the friendlier agencies get simply bought out or outcompeted on dumping prices or whatever, there may simply be no more remaining outsourcers with good job conditions. At the same time, the leverage acquired by shark outsourcers may also help them make sure that there is little work for translators to be gained directly from clients.
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Tomas Mosler, MITI wrote: If a MLV wants to reduce the costs...
Oleg: The purpose is not to reduce the cost but to increase the profit, cost reduction and creation of new offices being just two of the many possible ways to do it.
OK, but:
1) Cost reduction seems to be a bit in contradiction with the potential "multi-link" expansion.
2) New offices may bring higher profits, but (to some extent) only if there are new "resources" on the market (or if these offices just replace offices of a different smaller agency operating there earlier). However as I see it, the number of translators and projects is limited at whatever high number.
In addition, if there would be e.g. three MLV branches instead of one central, the "ping-pong" with one project IMHO brings no added value. (Also, you mentionand only takes money to pay the personnel (or alternatively it could be, charging the client more as you mention - but the same client who is reportedly driving the prices down?).
In other words (just a simplified example):
Now - translation goes from central office of MLV to the translator
Potential future - translation goes from office A of MLV to office B of MLV, then to office C of MLV, then to the translator
How would that MLV achieve a higher profit (compared to today) through the potential future scheme? I would like to know why the complex structure is better in terms of profit than the simple one, when the "product" is still one and the same and there are only more hands (on the MLV side) wanting to take a piece of a cake.
Re your updated answer - if there are no benefits, why to do it then? Survival? Is the agency in this thread or some other of this type in danger of collapse or something? Besides, ants live quite happily next to elephants in the wild.
| | | | | I emailed the chief executive asking for his comments... | Jul 23, 2013 |
...so watch this space!
| | | | | Páginas sobre el tema: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Email notification of a reduction in rates from a translation agency | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
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