Split profits or charge directly? Thread poster: Maria Felipe Maza
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Hello, everyone. I have the opportunity to translate a book for the first time and the client asked me the following:
"Do you want to split profit share? I am happy to do this or if you want to do upfront payment, then I'll need to know what the costs will be" Also, she gave me the number of printed pages, not of words.
I know that probably asking for upfront payment will be safer, but would sharing the profits be more convenient in the long run? Plus, I know nothing ab... See more Hello, everyone. I have the opportunity to translate a book for the first time and the client asked me the following:
"Do you want to split profit share? I am happy to do this or if you want to do upfront payment, then I'll need to know what the costs will be" Also, she gave me the number of printed pages, not of words.
I know that probably asking for upfront payment will be safer, but would sharing the profits be more convenient in the long run? Plus, I know nothing about how to charge that or how to verify what the sales were.
In case an upfront payment is still the best option, could you please suggest a price range? I'm from Argentina, and the Argentine Association of Translators and Interpreters suggest to charge 1900 Argentine pesos (19,62 dollars) every 1000 words, but to me that seems awfully low (maybe the price list is outdated or the prices are meant for Argentinean clients). Also, should I assume that every page has about 275 words in order to calculate the total price, or should I ask her the exact number of words?
Could you please help me? I need to get back to the client and translating a book is something I've wanted for so long. I don't want to miss this opportunity, but it's my the first time not only translating a book, but also working with a direct client, and I'm really at a loss.
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EDIT: Thank you all for your answers! I will ask for an upfront payment then, and I've already asked the client for the full text. The only thing I still have doubts about is the rate. Is $0.10 per word a good rate, or is it too much?
Thank you!
[Editado a las 2021-08-05 04:01 GMT]
[Editado a las 2021-08-05 04:07 GMT]
[Editado a las 2021-08-05 13:02 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adieu 
Ukrainian to English
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Is this a person with proven sales and existing local popularity?
If it is niche, charge cash. And charge 5-10x more than that sad rate.
From my recollections of the old early days of the internet when some newbie novelists posted freebies online for promotional purposes, the average fullsize novel was usually 300-350k symbols (not words).
I recall looking at that because I was a beginner translator getting paid per "standard Russian page" (1800 symbols iir... See more Is this a person with proven sales and existing local popularity?
If it is niche, charge cash. And charge 5-10x more than that sad rate.
From my recollections of the old early days of the internet when some newbie novelists posted freebies online for promotional purposes, the average fullsize novel was usually 300-350k symbols (not words).
I recall looking at that because I was a beginner translator getting paid per "standard Russian page" (1800 symbols iirc) back then and wanted to know how much that really was in terms of something familiar.
PS Microsoft Word and its freeware competitors can all provide word count in a single click, so it isn't a complicated question unless your client is a fossil with a typewriter (beware) or pen and paper (charge DOUBLE or TRIPLE, depending on handwriting clarity)
[Edited at 2021-08-05 04:14 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-08-05 04:17 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Simple questions | Aug 5, 2021 |
1. If your client makes no profit at all from the book, does that mean you will get paid nothing at all for your work?
2. How will you feel about that?
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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| Or if they make meager sales | Aug 5, 2021 |
You might find yourself chronically chasing that person for small payments or having to verify that they aren't shorting you...again... and again. And again.
It could well turn into an unpleasant deadbeat-dad-style experience. At best.
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| Note of caution | Aug 5, 2021 |
Book translations these days seem to be largely carried out almost for nothing by translators hoping that it will boost their image and help them get a foothold in the translation market. Translating a book for a share of the profits seems to fall into this category - it's unlikely to sell enough to pay you anything like a reasonable translation rate.
Ask your potential client for the exact word count, and to send you the actual text so you can get an idea of what you will be transl... See more Book translations these days seem to be largely carried out almost for nothing by translators hoping that it will boost their image and help them get a foothold in the translation market. Translating a book for a share of the profits seems to fall into this category - it's unlikely to sell enough to pay you anything like a reasonable translation rate.
Ask your potential client for the exact word count, and to send you the actual text so you can get an idea of what you will be translating. And make sure your quote is clear about what you are including in your price (e.g. that there will be an extra charge if the client wants to add more text or amend the source text you have already translated).
Don't let the 'glamour' of translating a book make you lose sight of the fact that you are running a business and need to get paid fairly. And don't be afraid to walk away if the price is not right. Seeing your name in print is lovely, but it's not worth slaving away for weeks for next to nothing.
[Edited at 2021-08-05 08:32 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | How to work for nothing or for something. | Aug 5, 2021 |
Previous posts have already explained the obvious risk of working on a split-profit basis. You could end up working for nothing.
(If the person makes a loss, would you have to cover half of that too?! Forget that option. Way too risky. Further, imagine that the work makes an excellent profit, how will you know? Do you trust this person to provide you with the information, down to every accounting detail? What does he/she mean by profit? The list of possibilities is endless and you ... See more Previous posts have already explained the obvious risk of working on a split-profit basis. You could end up working for nothing.
(If the person makes a loss, would you have to cover half of that too?! Forget that option. Way too risky. Further, imagine that the work makes an excellent profit, how will you know? Do you trust this person to provide you with the information, down to every accounting detail? What does he/she mean by profit? The list of possibilities is endless and you are too dependent on the client leaving you no control over anything and running the risk of zero money. No.
The first sensible step would be to get the word count, calculate what you might usually charge for that volume, taking time into account and the fact that you might also wish to continue providing services for other clients at the same time. That's your starting point. If he cannot provide that information, then you already have a problem.
Next, factor in elements such as complexity, formatting, technical specificities to consider what the word rate would actually be. A page is meaningless unless and until you know what a "page" actually means in terms of volume.
Once you have that info, you can start considering what comprises might be possible. In any event, for this type of project :
- ALWAYS make sure you have at least one-third as a non-refundable advance. You might refuse other work for this one and that needs to be covered, particularly if the person cancels.
- make sure that the rest is paid in installments, perhaps providing parcels of the work at regular intervals. If you do this, make sure you reserve the right to proofread, correct and revise the final version.
- payment of the amount remaining due upon supplying the last part of the translated work.
EDIT: Without wishing to dash your hopes, if this is about self-publication, bear in mind that many people not familiar with publishing and translation will have no idea of costs. Translation requires skill and takes time. We can forgive people not knowing but prepare yourself for the person to be surprised at both the time and cost you will announce, even if you announce bottom rates.
[Edited at 2021-08-05 10:30 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Work of love or work for money? | Aug 5, 2021 |
Art is merry and carefree, but numbers are real and unforgiving. Let's talk some numbers.
Book translations are big projects that can take months. For the sake of simplicity, let's assume that translating this book will take you one month of full-time work. (If you actually do this full-time or part-time does not matter for the calculation. But you should reckon how many full-time months you actually would need for the book.)
That means that the amount you need to get f... See more Art is merry and carefree, but numbers are real and unforgiving. Let's talk some numbers.
Book translations are big projects that can take months. For the sake of simplicity, let's assume that translating this book will take you one month of full-time work. (If you actually do this full-time or part-time does not matter for the calculation. But you should reckon how many full-time months you actually would need for the book.)
That means that the amount you need to get for this work must cover your full cost of living for one month, including food and rent, family, business costs, social security and taxes, and profit. This sum should be your base rate for the work, and it should be paid up-front or in instalments so that you have a decent income during the project time. If the client is not willing to do this, they simply try to exploit you/dump their risk on you, or they actually don't believe that the book will sell.
On top of that you can ask for royalties. That will probably be much less than half of the profits, but even if it were only 10% of the profits it could turn out a nice passive income if the book actually sells.
You should also consider that it will be very difficult to trace the profits of a book, so the author can tell you about anything even if it sells well. But the real problem is that most books simply don't sell. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | My experience | Aug 5, 2021 |
I have translated a small number of books, essentially technical or encyclopedic works relating to competitive sailing (racing technique, weather planning and routing for ocean or round-the-world sailing). The client was either an existing boatyard with in-house design team or a recognised nautical publisher who contacted me because the author had recommended my services. I have also translated a couple of smaller work relating to the stock exchange for neophytes or educational legal works.
... See more I have translated a small number of books, essentially technical or encyclopedic works relating to competitive sailing (racing technique, weather planning and routing for ocean or round-the-world sailing). The client was either an existing boatyard with in-house design team or a recognised nautical publisher who contacted me because the author had recommended my services. I have also translated a couple of smaller work relating to the stock exchange for neophytes or educational legal works.
Payment terms and conditions were agreed to upfront in reply to the questions "how long?" and "how much?".
It was all clear, signed and the advance paid and credited to my account before I started the work. ▲ Collapse
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| Thank you for your answers! | Aug 5, 2021 |
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions. I edited the original post but just in case I will mention it here too. I'd like to know more about how much to charge because the page which is usually held as the standard in Argentina lists rates that are way too low for other countries. Would 0.1 USD per word be a reasonable rate?
Nikki Scott-Despaigne and Kay-Viktor Stegemann, thank you for that useful information! If you don't mind, would you (or anyone who wants ... See more Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions. I edited the original post but just in case I will mention it here too. I'd like to know more about how much to charge because the page which is usually held as the standard in Argentina lists rates that are way too low for other countries. Would 0.1 USD per word be a reasonable rate?
Nikki Scott-Despaigne and Kay-Viktor Stegemann, thank you for that useful information! If you don't mind, would you (or anyone who wants to) tell me how to ensure that I hold the copyright to the translation? Should I register that information somewhere? I'm searching for information but since I'm new at this it's hard to know what information is reliable.
Thank you again! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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| You have no copyright | Aug 5, 2021 |
You're selling the product. The customer owns it.
Maria Felipe Maza wrote:
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions. I edited the original post but just in case I will mention it here too. I'd like to know more about how much to charge because the page which is usually held as the standard in Argentina lists rates that are way too low for other countries. Would 0.1 USD per word be a reasonable rate?
Nikki Scott-Despaigne and Kay-Viktor Stegemann, thank you for that useful information! If you don't mind, would you (or anyone who wants to) tell me how to ensure that I hold the copyright to the translation? Should I register that information somewhere? I'm searching for information but since I'm new at this it's hard to know what information is reliable.
Thank you again!
| | | | | Copyright is a matter of local law and your contract | Aug 5, 2021 |
Maria Felipe Maza wrote:
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions. I edited the original post but just in case I will mention it here too. I'd like to know more about how much to charge because the page which is usually held as the standard in Argentina lists rates that are way too low for other countries. Would 0.1 USD per word be a reasonable rate?
Nikki Scott-Despaigne and Kay-Viktor Stegemann, thank you for that useful information! If you don't mind, would you (or anyone who wants to) tell me how to ensure that I hold the copyright to the translation? Should I register that information somewhere? I'm searching for information but since I'm new at this it's hard to know what information is reliable.
Thank you again!
10 cents per word is probably a good rate (I'm not aware of the going rates in your pair but literary translations tend to pay lower than technical/business translations.)
Regarding the copyright, you should have a contract with the client about all this, and in the contract it should be clear that your name should be on the published book as the translator. The rest (who has the right to publish it where) should also be in the contract but since the client pays you for it, they will probably want these rights for themselves. Other things might depend on local law. There are different concepts of copyright in different legislations. In many European countries the creator of the work has the copyright by default, unless stated otherwise in the contract. In British/US copyright law, the client/employer typically has the copyright by default, unless stated otherwise in the contract.
In most legislations, copyright does need no registration of any kind. But in the US and Argentina it might.
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Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
Payment terms and conditions were agreed to upfront in reply to the questions "how long?" and "how much?".
It was all clear, signed and the advance paid and credited to my account before I started the work.
I translated a book - a crime thriller - during last winter. The agreement I had with the author was essentially the same as described by Nikki. I did the translation over six months, receiving a regular payment in advance each month and the balance on completion.
The agreed fee represented around 5 cents/word, considerably less than my normal word rate. I agreed to that because a) I liked the author, and b) I thought it would be an interesting challenge to work on something very different from my usual source material.
Now the author is trying to find a publisher. If she succeeds, I will be very happy for her. However, she is fully aware of the difficulty (she is an established author in Greek) and the book may end up being self-published as an ebook.
Either way, though, I have been paid for my work and found the whole thing a very positive experience.
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Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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It depends on how you're treating this. Is it the central part of your core business for the mear future? Or are you a bit of a fan exploring new opportunities in a field you like on the side, while you do other things for your usual bread and butter?
If the project excites you and you think it is good experience for your resume, some compromise may be OK on price.
Or maybe you just want some variety... I occasionally do some cheap(er) scripts for children's shows just ... See more It depends on how you're treating this. Is it the central part of your core business for the mear future? Or are you a bit of a fan exploring new opportunities in a field you like on the side, while you do other things for your usual bread and butter?
If the project excites you and you think it is good experience for your resume, some compromise may be OK on price.
Or maybe you just want some variety... I occasionally do some cheap(er) scripts for children's shows just to diversify from boring old big pharma crap. Still, none of that 0.019 USD nonsense, that's just demeaning. ▲ Collapse
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