| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9] > | Is there a way to prevent the decline in translation rates? Thread poster: Erwin S. Fernandez
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Adieu 
Ukrainian to English
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But I did just file a rate increase of +55% with a major client last week.
Kind of curious how that'll go.
Suspect they'll ignore it for 3 weeks or so as "request pending", but eventually cave.
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Regulation would be an excellent idea... but on the clients' side. Something like "can't propose rates and conditions below the translator's national associations". That way you wouldn't need a card, clients would make sure to select quality over cheap labor.
Even though cheap translators do aggravate the decline in rates, they're not the worst offender. Agencies, especially big ones, have been driving rates to the ground for years. Translators already have a lot to deal with, it would be ... See more Regulation would be an excellent idea... but on the clients' side. Something like "can't propose rates and conditions below the translator's national associations". That way you wouldn't need a card, clients would make sure to select quality over cheap labor.
Even though cheap translators do aggravate the decline in rates, they're not the worst offender. Agencies, especially big ones, have been driving rates to the ground for years. Translators already have a lot to deal with, it would be nice if clients and agencies were at least a bit regulated, for a change. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 10:47
English to Arabic
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Ice Scream wrote:
There is already a big market for high-quality, well-paid translation in all languages. Not all end-clients want cheap shite.
All evidences on this very forum indicate the exact opposite of the above theory.
Many of us remember those days when a TV screen would survive over 10 years of operation without a single technician seeing the insides of it once. Now, the big market, as we can all safely testify, is for the screens that can hardly survive a couple of years of operation with just MINIMAL maintenance. That same shift should have never happened in Translation; however, brokers, meddlers, wholesalers, etc., made it a reality, where the initial end-product now needs invasive maintenance through proofing, reviewing, editing, QAing, etc., all of which still with an ultimate output that can't survive long nor can be firmly relied on by client.
First step of regulation is kicking out all those with no academic language-degree.
It's okay to have another degree on the side, but not in lieu.
All other specialized professions require their relevant degrees for admission, and so should Translation.
Other steps can follow after that.
| | | | | My thoughts on the matter | May 23, 2021 |
Here's the problem as I see it with translation: our work simply isn't as important as many translators like to think it is. We're not brain surgeons, whose work can mean life or death for people. Nor are we performing an essential service like rubbish collection, grocery stores or the like. Especially with the use of translation tools like Google Translate and DeepL, technology can do at least some of what we do. Sure, the quality might not always be as good as what we provide (although that, t... See more Here's the problem as I see it with translation: our work simply isn't as important as many translators like to think it is. We're not brain surgeons, whose work can mean life or death for people. Nor are we performing an essential service like rubbish collection, grocery stores or the like. Especially with the use of translation tools like Google Translate and DeepL, technology can do at least some of what we do. Sure, the quality might not always be as good as what we provide (although that, too, depends on the translator in question) but many clients aren't that bothered because, contrary to what many translators like to tell themselves, the world's doesn't revolve around language. I'm not sure if anyone's ever died or suffered serious injury because of a incorrect translation. It might well have happened but I'd say it's pretty rare! ▲ Collapse
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Olga Koepping
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:47
German to English
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I did have some great clients, and to this day I miss some of them, and their very interesting work. Obviously they also paid appropriately.
But over time it just ground me down, spending so much time either having to walk away from a rate negotiation or replying to ridiculous offers with an immediate "no thank you", and I took a job in a different field. I sometimes miss the intellectual challenge, the research, the lovely flow state of being completely absorbed by the task. But from a p... See more I did have some great clients, and to this day I miss some of them, and their very interesting work. Obviously they also paid appropriately.
But over time it just ground me down, spending so much time either having to walk away from a rate negotiation or replying to ridiculous offers with an immediate "no thank you", and I took a job in a different field. I sometimes miss the intellectual challenge, the research, the lovely flow state of being completely absorbed by the task. But from a personal point of view, I don't miss the solitude or the inconsistency of workflow, and I certainly don't miss communicating with people who appeared to think translation was just data entry, or for that matter burger flipping, which would have been more fun. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:47
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Ramp them up | May 28, 2021 |
Q. Is there a way to prevent the decline in translation rates?
A: Put a little ramp in front of them so that as they come down the decline, they are redirected up the incline again.
[Edited at 2021-05-28 07:46 GMT]
| | | | | Sad to hear ... | May 28, 2021 |
Olga Koepping wrote:
I sometimes miss the intellectual challenge, the research, the lovely flow state of being completely absorbed by the task. But from a personal point of view, I don't miss the solitude or the inconsistency of workflow, and I certainly don't miss communicating with people who appeared to think translation was just data entry, or for that matter burger flipping, which would have been more fun.
... although I don't know you, but you seem(ed) to be on top level of our "industry". I also think of diverting my sources of income, because I undergo the same experiences you made. "translation was just data entry": It was only yesterday, when I was thrown a list of display messages to operate a machine, with absurd pretranslations, blocked, and to be taken as reference for the still untranslated messages where the PM couldn't find a proper "word" for in her travellers dictionary (or in DeepL). Will you still take jobs when offered, and only the good ones, or did you close your business totally? All the best!
| | | | | It is a prisoner’s dilemma | Jun 2, 2021 |
Hi Eriwin,
Actually, the situation is that if some new translator enters the market he will often start with a low rate. When others see their competitor's low rate, they will reduce their rate for translation to keep their competency. In this way, the rate for translation reduces when there are lots of competitors in the market even if everyone recognizes that their work worth much more. There is a solution to solve the problem which is asking for help from the Union or any related... See more Hi Eriwin,
Actually, the situation is that if some new translator enters the market he will often start with a low rate. When others see their competitor's low rate, they will reduce their rate for translation to keep their competency. In this way, the rate for translation reduces when there are lots of competitors in the market even if everyone recognizes that their work worth much more. There is a solution to solve the problem which is asking for help from the Union or any related organization. Another way is to change your platform where you find your job quote. Hope my comment will be helpful to you.
Erwin S. Fernandez wrote:
I've noticed that some agencies and outsourcers offer rates below the minimum in translation. There was a time when I worked at a very low rate per word for translation, which is so insulting to me but accepted it to have some work done. I realize that in order to professionalize the industry I must never accept rates that are mere pittance. Due to competition and the unscrupulous practices of some agencies, translators are forced to lower down their rates to get jobs.
How can we, translators, stop this? Should there a minimum rate to be adopted by all translators and communicated to all agencies and outsourcers the whole world? What is this minimum rate that to go below it the agency is liable to be sued for unethical practice?
Your thoughts on this will be much appreciated. Thank you. ▲ Collapse
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Paul Dixon
Brazil
Local time: 03:47
Portuguese to English
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| No hope in Brazil | Jun 2, 2021 |
Brazil is now in its worst ever crisis, worse than anything before in history. Very little work and hundreds of people competing for one job. (I saw over 500 bids for a ProZ job the other day, and another time there were 100 bids for a one-page job in 10 minutes, and on a Sunday night).
Regulation is the solution, so that REAL translators who have translation degrees or translators with other degrees who can prove their level by taking a TOUGH test would get a Brazilian Translators' Associ... See more Brazil is now in its worst ever crisis, worse than anything before in history. Very little work and hundreds of people competing for one job. (I saw over 500 bids for a ProZ job the other day, and another time there were 100 bids for a one-page job in 10 minutes, and on a Sunday night).
Regulation is the solution, so that REAL translators who have translation degrees or translators with other degrees who can prove their level by taking a TOUGH test would get a Brazilian Translators' Association (OTB)* card and thus be on the market, NOT people who 'have spent a weekend in Disney and can do it for free'.
The best way to avoid (not prevent) the decline in translation rates is to find a new career.
(*) The OTB does not exist as yet. It would have to be created along the lines of the Brazilian Bar Association - OAB. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | It is a mistake to start at a low rate | Jun 6, 2021 |
Chong Yao wrote:
Actually, the situation is that if some new translator enters the market he will often start with a low rate. When others see their competitor's low rate, they will reduce their rate for translation to keep their competency. In this way, the rate for translation reduces when there are lots of competitors in the market even if everyone recognizes that their work worth much more. There is a solution to solve the problem which is asking for help from the Union or any related organization. Another way is to change your platform where you find your job quote. Hope my comment will be helpful to you.
Many beginners seem to forget that every translation is tailored to a specific situation. Either it is fit for its purpose, or is is useless - and valueless - to the client. It is less important whether the translation was done by a beginner or a seasoned expert. The expert may produce a good translation faster, or the beginner's work may be just adequate, while the more experienced translator will produce a more polished version. There ARE differences, but beginners should not assume that they have to work for low rates that they cannot live on.
Beginners too may have expert knowledge of the subject area and special language, depending on what training and experience they have apart from translating. If they deliver a professional translation, they should charge a professional rate, and clients should pay for quality work if that is what they get.
Anyone can say ´I am cheap´ and charge low rates. I am afraid too many beginners underrate themselves and sell their work too cheaply. Try emphasizing quality on your profile, and describe your expertise and qualifications.
[Edited at 2021-06-06 14:02 GMT]
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 09:47
Member
English to Turkish
Paul Dixon wrote:
Brazil is now in its worst ever crisis, worse than anything before in history. Very little work and hundreds of people competing for one job. (I saw over 500 bids for a ProZ job the other day, and another time there were 100 bids for a one-page job in 10 minutes, and on a Sunday night).
Regulation is the solution, so that REAL translators who have translation degrees or translators with other degrees who can prove their level by taking a TOUGH test would get a Brazilian Translators' Association (OTB)* card and thus be on the market, NOT people who 'have spent a weekend in Disney and can do it for free'.
The best way to avoid (not prevent) the decline in translation rates is to find a new career.
(*) The OTB does not exist as yet. It would have to be created along the lines of the Brazilian Bar Association - OAB.
I understand that you're originally British and holding both UK and Brazilian passports, and you seem to be complaining an awful lot about Brazil's economic conditions here. I'm just curious, have you ever considered going back to your native Britain (which is considered to be one of the richest and most advanced countries in the world)? I guess, when given the chance, a large number of your Brazilian compatriots wouldn't think twice about leaving Brazil for the UK.
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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| Seems like you're an expat? | Jun 6, 2021 |
Aren't you the least bit concerned that any attempts to marginalize or ban uncertified translators will leave you first and foremost in the unemployment queue?
People getting territorial over licensing are rarely kind to anything foreign (diplomas, certifications, immigrants, etc.) on their turf
Paul Dixon wrote:
Brazil is now in its worst ever crisis, worse than anything before in history. Very little work and hundreds of people competing for one job. (I saw over 500 bids for a ProZ job the other day, and another time there were 100 bids for a one-page job in 10 minutes, and on a Sunday night).
Regulation is the solution, so that REAL translators who have translation degrees or translators with other degrees who can prove their level by taking a TOUGH test would get a Brazilian Translators' Association (OTB)* card and thus be on the market, NOT people who 'have spent a weekend in Disney and can do it for free'.
The best way to avoid (not prevent) the decline in translation rates is to find a new career.
(*) The OTB does not exist as yet. It would have to be created along the lines of the Brazilian Bar Association - OAB.
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| Sharing my story | Jun 6, 2021 |
A few years ago, I got several jobs through an auction where you were supposed to submit a short test translation and then do a sort of peer review to determine the winner. I'd say, the average number of bidders for those jobs stood at about 100, but what's also remarkable is how consistently poor the translations were (making it hard to decide which two to pick as winners). Kind of gives a sense of the market environment in which the majority of your competitors (especially the younger ones, wh... See more A few years ago, I got several jobs through an auction where you were supposed to submit a short test translation and then do a sort of peer review to determine the winner. I'd say, the average number of bidders for those jobs stood at about 100, but what's also remarkable is how consistently poor the translations were (making it hard to decide which two to pick as winners). Kind of gives a sense of the market environment in which the majority of your competitors (especially the younger ones, who seem increasingly prone to outsourcing the labor of translation to AI) won't probably offer much by way of competition. This may be different in other countries, though. The time I'm writing about was also when I had the honor of getting to know and work with a big translation pro whose rates would only go up and never down, as a matter of principle. I have also been able to insist on ever higher rates of pay, but in our market here, it is not an easy pursuit. That man once stopped working for Russian companies altogether because they could not afford his services. He called me a while back and, among other things, said that his 2020 had been a mess of a year but that things had started looking up (and I hope this trend will hold).
I remember the time my employer told me I had to go full freelance because COVID. The CEO then offered me a ridiculously low rate for freelance jobs and said I'd just have to accept it. I did a few jobs for that company later, and the rates I was offered on them were at least double and up to four times the amount initially offered by the boss. I was able to find a new and better paying job in about two weeks, so, for now, I don't have to keep worrying about the declining rates, but I am aware of the problem. Got to keep kicking. A nice thing about working in Russia is that, since 2014, the ruble has been under sustained pressure, so a translator working for Western companies can charge them a rate they'll find nice and low without feeling underpaid ▲ Collapse
| | | | | At least QUESTION low rates before you accept them! | Jun 6, 2021 |
Another things is that so many translators talk about the rates agencies offer them!
In most other professions the person offering the service sets the price. Again and again I hear people accepting a price per word as if they were selling rice or potatoes by the kilo. And it is not their price, it is the price the agency offers to pay.
Admittedly, agencies offer me their prices too, but I tell them what I would ask all the same! If I want the job, I may go down a little, but ... See more Another things is that so many translators talk about the rates agencies offer them!
In most other professions the person offering the service sets the price. Again and again I hear people accepting a price per word as if they were selling rice or potatoes by the kilo. And it is not their price, it is the price the agency offers to pay.
Admittedly, agencies offer me their prices too, but I tell them what I would ask all the same! If I want the job, I may go down a little, but not below a certain minimum. All right, I am lucky, I have enough clients who pay my asking price, but my advice is never, ever to accept a low rate without questioning it and reminding the client that others pay more.
Agencies will press rates until they can wipe the floor with translators, unless we remember that we are business partners, not employees. They need our skills, but we have to make a living too. We provide what they want, and we may be the bottom of the pyramid, but we are also the foundation it stands on.
So find some self confidence and compete on quality, reliability, expertise on the subject, tailoring the translation precisely, even fast delivery, but take care with that! Deadlines are often tight enough already, and it takes time to deliver polished, quality translations.
Compete on anything but how cheap you are - give clients value for money, let them know, and insist that they pay.
[Edited at 2021-06-06 20:54 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
Denis Fesik wrote:
A nice thing about working in Russia is that, since 2014, the ruble has been under sustained pressure, so a translator working for Western companies can charge them a rate they'll find nice and low without feeling underpaid
Unless all your money goes towards a mortgage, I find that highly doubtful.
Russian life is just so tumultuous that we developed short memories.
I left Russia like 12 years ago... back then, an hour of simultaneous interpreting paid $100 cash and bought you 150 cans of beer or 150 packs of pasta or buckwheat. The tax rate for ИП under упрощенка was 4% (which few people actually even paid).
....are you SERIOUSLY telling me it's still all good just because a dollar buys more roubles??? But do you still have 20 RUR beers or pasta? Doubt it. You probably just forgot and all consumer prices follow or exceed dollar prices.
[Edited at 2021-06-07 01:29 GMT]
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