Is it a PM's job/responsibility to set and negotiate rates? Thread poster: Baran Keki
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Baran Keki 
Türkiye
Local time: 14:45
Member
English to Turkish
There is a certain North European translation agency with a decent BB record here. They use Plunet, which means that all of my rates are on record and the PMs must know about them.
I'd been getting jobs from that agency based on my usual per word rates (for both translation and proofreading) for quite some time until a certain PM (located in a Southern European country) started working for that agency. After that I started getting only proofreading jobs and they all had 'fixed rates', whi... See more There is a certain North European translation agency with a decent BB record here. They use Plunet, which means that all of my rates are on record and the PMs must know about them.
I'd been getting jobs from that agency based on my usual per word rates (for both translation and proofreading) for quite some time until a certain PM (located in a Southern European country) started working for that agency. After that I started getting only proofreading jobs and they all had 'fixed rates', which usually amounted to less than half of my per word rate for proofreading. I started haggling with that PM and managed to raise the price of one proofreading job from 100 EUR to 150 EUR some months ago and today she refused my offer for a measly 7 EUR difference.
I'm wondering why an agency using Plunet or any other management system that keeps the records of their translators' rates and info set "fixed rates" for jobs that are appallingly lower than the translator's rates. What's the point in asking and entering one's per word rate into their "system"?
Secondly, isn't it the job of the so called 'Vendor Managers' to set and negotiate rates and prices?
Can a PM, knowing the translator's rate, set 'fixed rates' off their own bat?
Is there anybody experiencing something like this with a translation agency that boasts 5 star BB reviews saying 'good rates'? ▲ Collapse
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It’s not up to us freelancers to define what a PM can or can’t do, that’s up to whoever is his/her boss, but I for one wouldn’t accept the situation you’re describing.
P.S. I don’t see what being located in a Southern European country has to do with the issue…
| | | | | Who's pulling the strings? | May 14, 2021 |
In answer to your question, I would say it's up to whoever gives instructions to the PM. If the boss gives the PM a free hand to barter with you - and that does happen in some organisations - then it is their job. It could be a new policy that has been adopted on the quiet; maybe ditching Plunet is felt to be too much hassle or unnecessary. Or maybe it's because of this PM's personality, or she's trying to impress her boss by saving money. What I'd like to know is whether PMs ever get any... See more In answer to your question, I would say it's up to whoever gives instructions to the PM. If the boss gives the PM a free hand to barter with you - and that does happen in some organisations - then it is their job. It could be a new policy that has been adopted on the quiet; maybe ditching Plunet is felt to be too much hassle or unnecessary. Or maybe it's because of this PM's personality, or she's trying to impress her boss by saving money. What I'd like to know is whether PMs ever get any kind of financial recompense for haggling a freelancer down, or whether they just enjoy the thrill of pulling our strings... or maybe both? Has anyone ever heard of a PM being rewarded financially for that?
Baran Keki wrote:
Is there anybody experiencing something like this with a translation agency that boasts 5 star BB reviews saying 'good rates'?
Ah, but 'good' from whose point of view? Theirs, very possibly... And stars don't mean much to me these days. Some of the most horrid agencies I know have an unblemished string of 5s as long as your arm! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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| Are you sure it isn't a policy shift? | May 14, 2021 |
There are some firms that get progressively scammier at accounting. And it tends to come as a collective push from all PMs, although there's always some Junior Manager bootlicker who tries to wow their management by gaming the system to some ridiculous result.
Some suddenly start bundling 15-20 files into a job to bypass minimums and abuse the hell out of match discounts etc. I've literally gotten MTPE and revision offers on the same bundle where the revision price was like 4x HIGHE... See more There are some firms that get progressively scammier at accounting. And it tends to come as a collective push from all PMs, although there's always some Junior Manager bootlicker who tries to wow their management by gaming the system to some ridiculous result.
Some suddenly start bundling 15-20 files into a job to bypass minimums and abuse the hell out of match discounts etc. I've literally gotten MTPE and revision offers on the same bundle where the revision price was like 4x HIGHER.
At some point, you get to where you see a specific PM from a client on an offer and... you just ignore that clown. Keep an informal blacklist of people whose emails you ignore.
[Edited at 2021-05-14 14:58 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 14:45
Member
English to Turkish
TOPIC STARTER
Teresa Borges wrote:
P.S. I don’t see what being located in a Southern European country has to do with the issue…
I mentioned the PM's location only to draw attention to the fact that she is not an 'in-house' personnel of that Danish agency (I hope I've dropped enough clues by now), but rather she is a 'freelance Project Manager' who is based in a different country. I didn't mean to cast aspersions on anybody hailing from that region.
In my experience the vast majority of PMs contact you for jobs, knowing full well your rates as they see them in their system, and issue POs and receive translations back. That's it. Granted, there are those who give you a wide berth and go for cheaper translators if they think your rates are too high and especially if they're instructed to go for cheaper translators by their bosses. But they never set "fixed rates" or haggle with translators on their own initiative. It's the agency owners, LSPs, outsourcers etc., irrespective of their geographical location, that haggle for prices and set a budget, not PMs.
Peter Shortall wrote:
Or maybe it's because of this PM's personality, or she's trying to impress her boss by saving money
Seeing as how she was adamant to get the job (1000 word technical proofreading) done for 23 EUR, I'm thinking of other possibilities...
Adieu wrote:
Are you sure it isn't a policy shift?
No, I don't think so. After receiving job notifications with ridiculously low fixed rates, I got in touch with their vendor manager to update my rates. I doubled my proofreading rate and slightly increased my translation rate (just for fun) in the hopes that their proofreading prices would somewhat improve, but nothing has changed. Now when I do the math I seem to get 1/3 of my (new) proofreading rate, whereas I was getting nearly half of it before I updated my rates.
| | | | Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 06:45
Greek to English
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| Different business habits | May 19, 2021 |
I mentioned the PM's location only to draw attention to the fact that she is not an 'in-house' personnel of that Danish agency
Different business ethics and habits. Or preference to translators of the PM's own area/country.
PMs have a wide range of discretion on selecting translators, and those working remotely without on-site supervision, will definitely utilize more personal criteria than the agency's MO. Sometimes even their facebook friends.
Also, Southern Europeans are much more likely to pay you a lot less, because they adjust your rates in their own head according to the salary standards of their own countries. They may even get a bonus for that.
You'll get used to it.
| | | | | From the VM perspective. | Jun 22, 2021 |
Baran Keki wrote:
There is a certain North European translation agency with a decent BB record here. They use Plunet, which means that all of my rates are on record and the PMs must know about them.
I'd been getting jobs from that agency based on my usual per word rates (for both translation and proofreading) for quite some time until a certain PM (located in a Southern European country) started working for that agency. After that I started getting only proofreading jobs and they all had 'fixed rates', which usually amounted to less than half of my per word rate for proofreading. I started haggling with that PM and managed to raise the price of one proofreading job from 100 EUR to 150 EUR some months ago and today she refused my offer for a measly 7 EUR difference.
I'm wondering why an agency using Plunet or any other management system that keeps the records of their translators' rates and info set "fixed rates" for jobs that are appallingly lower than the translator's rates. What's the point in asking and entering one's per word rate into their "system"?
Secondly, isn't it the job of the so called 'Vendor Managers' to set and negotiate rates and prices?
Can a PM, knowing the translator's rate, set 'fixed rates' off their own bat?
Is there anybody experiencing something like this with a translation agency that boasts 5 star BB reviews saying 'good rates'?
Not all the clients working for a translation company pay the same. So I am guessing some of those jobs that the PM offered you had a reduced rate on their side. Therefore, you suddenly become expensive, when for other clients your rates are acceptable.
The responsibilities of the PM team and VM team are a bit blurry sometimes. I would say if the rate is to go in the system as "default" then it should be agreed with the VM (as they have training on how to negotiate). If the rate is a one off, it could be done by the PM quickly when assigning the project.
I think big companies tend to leave any kind of negotiation to the VM team only.
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