Trados pack with locked segments of 100% repetitions Thread poster: Levan Namoradze
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Levan Namoradze 
Georgia
Local time: 16:31
Member (2005)
English to Georgian
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Is that lawful / Does it meet the best international practice, when
an agency delivers a Trados package with locked 100%-repetition segments not subject to any remuneration?
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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| All rep discounts are kinda scammy | May 28, 2021 |
But there is no law against it.
What entertains me most of all, though, is that 100% matches are often crap... whether due to low quality inputs or terminology discrepancies between different translators, or SIMPLY BECAUSE SOURCE AND TARGET LANGUAGES HAVE DIFFERENT RULES. The same sentence in different contexts will not be translated exactly the same, and in some cases, even not at all similarly.
And it gets even funnier when reps aren't of actual sentences, but rather ... See more But there is no law against it.
What entertains me most of all, though, is that 100% matches are often crap... whether due to low quality inputs or terminology discrepancies between different translators, or SIMPLY BECAUSE SOURCE AND TARGET LANGUAGES HAVE DIFFERENT RULES. The same sentence in different contexts will not be translated exactly the same, and in some cases, even not at all similarly.
And it gets even funnier when reps aren't of actual sentences, but rather of OCR results like [stamp: illegible]. Locked 100's will often lead to entertaining results after somebody who actually bothers to look at source scans will "poison" the TM with a specific decrypted [illegible] segment, leading to random stamps or signatures from other regions appearing as matches.
Actually, in the long run, I think locked reps are an EXCELLENT thing, because they will lead to an inevitable decline in quality. Which is always a good thing.
Cheap clients deserve low quality. If they keep getting it due to their own cost-cutting policies, the market will eventually punish them for it. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Levan Namoradze
Georgia
Local time: 16:31
Member (2005)
English to Georgian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | We can do nothing | May 28, 2021 |
Adieu wrote:
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Cheap clients deserve low quality. If they keep getting it due to their own cost-cutting policies, the market will eventually punish them for it.
However, we may be interested even in cheap clients (for instance, due to regular projects). And I am NOT interested in their punishment by the market. But you are right: we can do nothing. They need to reach the secret themselves...
| | | | Edward Potter
Spain
Local time: 14:31
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
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| Natural evolution of the market | May 31, 2021 |
Adieu wrote:
But there is no law against it.
Cheap clients deserve low quality. If they keep getting it due to their own cost-cutting policies, the market will eventually punish them for it.
I believe things will find their natural place when left alone. Cheaper clients will have lower quality work. However, sometimes lower quality work is enough for the end client, and therefore these clients have their place.
The best clients are those who have made their mistakes already paying for cheap work and are willing to pay more for quality. The translator has to convince them that they are offering that quality and deserve being hired for the work.
Among the less desireable clients are those without much experience in obtaining translation services and go cheap without knowing much about the service being rendered. May they learn and become better clients.
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Stepan Konev
Russian Federation
Local time: 15:31
English to Russian
if those segments are all locked and you are not supposed to edit them, then you don't even need to read them. No matter how crappy they are, it is not your problem. With this scenario, you don't apply any effort, that is why zero rate is fair in my opinion. All other discussions on how dangerous it could be are just cheap talk. Once the agency has locked the work, it's not your business any longer.
One of my best clients does not pay for 100% matches, but pays 100% rate for all other matc... See more if those segments are all locked and you are not supposed to edit them, then you don't even need to read them. No matter how crappy they are, it is not your problem. With this scenario, you don't apply any effort, that is why zero rate is fair in my opinion. All other discussions on how dangerous it could be are just cheap talk. Once the agency has locked the work, it's not your business any longer.
One of my best clients does not pay for 100% matches, but pays 100% rate for all other matches, 99% to 0%. This approach motivates me to do the work they don't ask me to do. I mean they don't ask me to check those 100% matches but when I come across a major issue, I flag it without being asked. This is how honest attitude on both sides works to the benefit of clients.
[Edited at 2021-05-31 12:39 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Not always true | Jun 4, 2021 |
Stepan Konev wrote:
if those segments are all locked and you are not supposed to edit them, then you don't even need to read them.
You might well need to read them as they might contain information and terms useful for your translation, in which case they should also be made searchable.
Should this be indeed the case, I would only find it fair that a certain amount of additional money is agreed upon between client and translator.
[Edited at 2021-06-04 06:39 GMT]
| | | | Stepan Konev
Russian Federation
Local time: 15:31
English to Russian
| Then you should add google search | Jun 4, 2021 |
Mario Cerutti wrote:
You might well need to read them as they might contain information and terms useful for your translation, in which case they should also be made searchable.
Should this be indeed the case, I would only find it fair that a certain amount of additional money is agreed upon between client and translator. I always use Google search during my work to find information and terms useful for my translation. Should I add an extra fee for reading Google? Certainly you need to read all locked segments either, at least for context. But isn't it a common convention? In my understanding, my translation rate already incudes such actions as reading segments for context, searching Google for terms, using tools and dictionaries, spellchecking, proofreading, typing letters, etc.
By locking segments, you client gives you a direct instruction: do not touch these segments. Period. If you still want to read them or do anything else with them, it's your own initiative.
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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Stepan Konev wrote:
I always use Google search during my work to find information and terms useful for my translation. Should I add an extra fee for reading Google? Certainly you need to read all locked segments either, at least for context. But isn't it a common convention? In my understanding, my translation rate already incudes such actions as reading segments for context, searching Google for terms, using tools and dictionaries, spellchecking, proofreading, typing letters, etc.
By locking segments, you client gives you a direct instruction: do not touch these segments. Period. If you still want to read them or do anything else with them, it's your own initiative.
It's not the same.
It's still marginally better than trying to sell them as freebie 101% matches or something, but I've still seen surreal job proposals like 22-file bundles with 16,000 (!) locked words... for like $60 iirc.
That's utter chaos and it ain't right.
Just scrolling through all that junk should involve compensation of several hours of your time.
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Levan Namoradze
Georgia
Local time: 16:31
Member (2005)
English to Georgian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
However, in my case, the locked segments include nothing. I suspect they will be completed with my translations.
| | | | Stepan Konev
Russian Federation
Local time: 15:31
English to Russian
| Why do you accept junk? | Jun 4, 2021 |
Adieu wrote:
Just scrolling through all that junk should involve compensation of several hours of your time. Isn't it up to you to agree or not agree to spend several hours for "just scrolling through all that junk"? You are the one who accepts the rules.
@Levan Namoradze
If they locked empty segments, it means those segments are second repetitions, not 100% matches. When you translate a text, repetitions are automatically propagated, and translators apt to skip such automatically propagated segments without control. That's why agencies prefer to take the responsibility over such segments instead of leaving it to a translator.
| | | | | What I meant to say | Jun 4, 2021 |
Stepan Konev wrote: Mario Cerutti wrote:
You might well need to read them as they might contain information and terms useful for your translation, in which case they should also be made searchable.
Should this be indeed the case, I would only find it fair that a certain amount of additional money is agreed upon between client and translator. I always use Google search during my work to find information and terms useful for my translation. Should I add an extra fee for reading Google?
Of course not. I meant that locked sentences may contain project-specific terms that your client wants you to reuse (and that may not be included in the provided TM, or the TM might not be provided at all), or you might need to read a locked segment immediately preceding a certain translation segment for context or better text flowing.
I happen to receive quite often projects without TMs with a zillion of segments locked by incompetent project managers, who on the other hand want you to reuse existing terms or expressions that can only be found in such locked segments. I admit that this might not be everybody's case, but given the increasing number of incompetent translation agencies nowadays it may well happen to more translators.
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
| Just raise rates | Jun 4, 2021 |
If you see a client start to get progressively more inventive with match/rep/lock discounts, just raise your rates on them.
It actually works.
And in cases when it doesn't, they will probably still respond in some way, and you can draw them into a discussion about their pricing policy. Perhaps you get a better word rate after all or maybe you talk them into adjusting their discount grid for fuzzies.
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Stepan Konev
Russian Federation
Local time: 15:31
English to Russian
| You always have to read source segments before translating, whether locked or not | Jun 5, 2021 |
Mario Cerutti wrote:
you might need to read a locked segment immediately preceding a certain translation segment for context Well, my rate includes reading by default. Along with other translation related actions like typing, searching, checking, proofing, etc. You can't translate without reading the source.
Ok, just imagine that your client sent you only a selection of segments (for example, a list of quotes from a book), and you feel like there must be something else before and after those segments. What would you do next? You can search for the full text of that book in the internet or ask your client to give you the entire text. To skip this extra step of searching/asking, your client sends those segments locked for your reference. This is how I see it.
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If you could choose between:
1. Translate 10 sentences out of context; or
2. Translate 10 sentences out of context with 90 other sentences for reference,
what would you prefer?
[Edited at 2021-06-05 00:13 GMT]
| | | | | Useless statement | Jun 5, 2021 |
Stepan Konev wrote:
You can't translate without reading the source.
Needless to say that this is not what I meant, right?
[Edited at 2021-06-05 01:54 GMT]
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