| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Care to explain this services-and-finances-related oddity? Thread poster: S_G_C
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S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 12:54
English to Romanian
Dear proz-ians across the globe,
After a prolonged absence from the translation field due to health and personal issues, I have decided to resume my activity and started looking for jobs.
Only to discover that people who make basic mistakes and seem to have trouble understanding even simple constructions are assigned projects (I'm talking about translations into and from English), while people who lose their sleep searching for the most adequate translation, freaking ou... See more Dear proz-ians across the globe,
After a prolonged absence from the translation field due to health and personal issues, I have decided to resume my activity and started looking for jobs.
Only to discover that people who make basic mistakes and seem to have trouble understanding even simple constructions are assigned projects (I'm talking about translations into and from English), while people who lose their sleep searching for the most adequate translation, freaking out over the slightest typo, checking and re-checking their work, polishing it... aren't.
When have standards been flipped over, turned upside down? It doesn't even depend on rates anymore, my rates are not over the moon... ▲ Collapse
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Restarting is always difficult. I’ve been around for a long while and I’ve seen that every time there is a crisis the idea of becoming a translator sounds perfect to some people who believe that translation is easy, and anyone can do it, as long as they’re bilingual. Fortunately, they tend to disappear as swiftly as they came. So, don’t despair, don’t doubt yourself and keep doing what you’re good at. Good luck!
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:54
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| I don't know.... | Sep 17, 2021 |
...maybe it happened when people started writing "anymore" instead of "any more".
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Tom in London wrote:
...maybe it happened when people started writing "anymore" instead of "any more".
Or was it when people started writing “maybe” instead of “may be”?
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S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 12:54
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER
Tom in London wrote:
...maybe it happened when people started writing "anymore" instead of "any more".
Both forms are used. I did not make a mistake.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anymore
Although both anymore and any more are found in written use, in current writing anymore is the more common styling. Anymore is regularly used in negative No one can be natural anymore. — May Sarton , interrogative Do you read much anymore? , and conditional If you do that anymore, I'll leave. contexts and in certain positive constructions.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:54
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| One or the other | Sep 17, 2021 |
Sorana_M. wrote:
....., in current writing anymore is the more common styling.
In American English (i.e. Merriam Webster). So be sure that everything else you write in English is in American English.
[Edited at 2021-09-17 12:49 GMT]
| | | | Tony Keily
Local time: 11:54
Italian to English
+ ...
people who lose their sleep searching for the most adequate translation, freaking out over the slightest typo, checking and re-checking their work
...this sounds like a severe neurotic disturbance. I wrap things up at around 4 p.m. and stay physically and mentally AFK until about eight the next morning. Translation's not going to make me rich so it might as well keep me happy.
| | | | Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 04:54
Greek to English
+ ...
| Yes, I will explain | Sep 17, 2021 |
I knew I was not alone - and I have been warning PMs in writing for the last 5-6 years.
1) Recruiting departments receive bonuses on how many new translators they recruit. Tests are, therefore, 300-word elementary school level. I proposed to one of them to make them at least "level 8 hard" (8/10), they never went along with it. You pass the test if you make 4 serious objective (without any doubt) errors (!!!) in just 300 words. Thus everybody passes, Borat passes with flying... See more I knew I was not alone - and I have been warning PMs in writing for the last 5-6 years.
1) Recruiting departments receive bonuses on how many new translators they recruit. Tests are, therefore, 300-word elementary school level. I proposed to one of them to make them at least "level 8 hard" (8/10), they never went along with it. You pass the test if you make 4 serious objective (without any doubt) errors (!!!) in just 300 words. Thus everybody passes, Borat passes with flying colors.
2) Everyone uses MT. But they don't bother making the sentences better. A nice precise 12-word English sentence turns into a 26-word nightmare of useless words in Greek and nobody notices, because "objectively it's fine". And nobody bothers to fix it.
3) There was some personal connection between PMs and translators in the past, to the extent that at least the veterans felt as if they were physically working right over there. This creates a sense of obligation too, a sense of good duty. Now it's a bunch of unknown, borderline anonymous H1-B temps from their kitchen table in the other side of the world, with business & contact ethics straight from the motherland. Experienced translators know very well what I mean by that. Mass emails that look like personal, no replies, treating the translator like a disposable unit. Sour milk... nobody tolerates it without the sourness spilling in the work product over time. "You don't care about me, I don't care about you".
4) Writing skills don't matter anymore, and there's nobody at the agency or at the client's office or anywhere to say "wait a minute, this text doesn't put you to sleep, it's good, short, precise".
So, instead of reading a good instruction "Inject the patient's arm with the drug" or something, we read with horror "Effectuate the infusion of the medicinal treatment inside the patient's hand". That's how the crappy Greek sentence I just edited back-translates, and it sounds that bad both in Greek and in English. But the PM doesn't know, can't be convinced without spending time and money, and the client probably never reads the text anyway.
5) The largest agencies (combined they control 90% of the market) change PMs so often, that no PM has long enough experience with translators. People working 24/7 with a busy company for 10+ years and they are ignored by the new PM, in favor of someone who just got in because they lost their job in retail. But they have (or can buy) a few certificates from private "industry organizations". Then they fill up a resume with completely useless credentials ("Seminars I've attended", "That time I translated 10 pages for the Ministry of Finance", "Sworn translator here, the other ones are atheists"), and the department head gets impressed. Since most translations are of very low visibility (nobody ever reads them), and done mostly for regulatory purposes or "to get an idea of what the source means", don't expect change for the better. Finally, reduced rates that mimic minimum per hour pay but without benefits (in the US at least) don't help either. ▲ Collapse
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Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 04:54
Greek to English
+ ...
| A personal story ("the paradigms have changed, that's why") | Sep 17, 2021 |
A few months ago I was the editor on a large insurance translation project.
By a very large agency, for a very large insurance company.
I have personally worked in insurance in both countries for 11 years, full time.
I am the only translator (from all languages) in that agency that has real professional experience in that field.
a) The project was delayed by the translator one week. Not kidding you. One week.
b) I found a total of 400+ objective... See more A few months ago I was the editor on a large insurance translation project.
By a very large agency, for a very large insurance company.
I have personally worked in insurance in both countries for 11 years, full time.
I am the only translator (from all languages) in that agency that has real professional experience in that field.
a) The project was delayed by the translator one week. Not kidding you. One week.
b) I found a total of 400+ objective errors. This is the first time I found more than 20-30 errors in a project. I documented and explained 25 of them in a separate document.
c) The client accepted my document.
d) That PM never worked with me again.
e) The same translator delayed other projects too that period, from 1 to 4 days. Every PM was receiving a different excuse for the delays (they told me).
f) The Head of the Department who obviously chose the translator seems to be a person doing the exact opposite of what would be logical, and that's not the first time, in my experience. She seems to be the "new paradigm for dynamic" (which now seems to be "when I get a little power, I will try to prove everyday that things fall upwards, and I'll always chose the worse, because the worse never complains and never explains"). The specific department head also shows sexist overtones in her selections (I've silently observed over years...). The specific regional office has a reputation among employees of being "toxic", and now that most work from home and can't poison each other anymore, the toxicity is aimed towards the translators. Its departments can never accept that they make errors. The reason they get away with it, is that they have little or no real competition, and a large pool of translators willing to work for peanuts under any treatment. The product suffers, in my opinion, in way too many cases to justify what they charge their clients.
The specific office at one time was staging FAKE REVIEWS with the aim of reducing POs even 6-10 months after the translation was delivered, to show increased profitability (absolutely true story). Editors were hired and told that they are trying to prove to an end client that their translations are not good, so they can get the job. The editors, hoping they would get the new jobs, were just re-phrasing sentences, and the "edited" translation was sent back to the translator and a PO reduction was asked.
You can't change that or them. It's true that standards have fallen, but it's more true that the culture and the paradigms have changed. This was also stated in a warning I received over a mass email from a PM who resigned years ago, when her very good agency was bought (and subsequently destroyed) by this large agency. She resigned immediately after the first meeting with the new bosses, and stated the reasons more or less in that email. At any rate, you can't fight these things, I would suggest you use them in moderation and only if needed. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adieu 
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
| It's not so bad | Sep 17, 2021 |
There are still places and ways to earn $50-ish per (hardcore) hour
But even then and there, you're going to be surrounded by clowns, slackers, and chaos
Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
I knew I was not alone - and I have been warning PMs in writing for the last 5-6 years.
1) Recruiting departments receive bonuses on how many new translators they recruit. Tests are, therefore, 300-word elementary school level. I proposed to one of them to make them at least "level 8 hard" (8/10), they never went along with it. You pass the test if you make 4 serious objective (without any doubt) errors (!!!) in just 300 words. Thus everybody passes, Borat passes with flying colors.
2) Everyone uses MT. But they don't bother making the sentences better. A nice precise 12-word English sentence turns into a 26-word nightmare of useless words in Greek and nobody notices, because "objectively it's fine". And nobody bothers to fix it.
3) There was some personal connection between PMs and translators in the past, to the extent that at least the veterans felt as if they were physically working right over there. This creates a sense of obligation too, a sense of good duty. Now it's a bunch of unknown, borderline anonymous H1-B temps from their kitchen table in the other side of the world, with business & contact ethics straight from the motherland. Experienced translators know very well what I mean by that. Mass emails that look like personal, no replies, treating the translator like a disposable unit. Sour milk... nobody tolerates it without the sourness spilling in the work product over time. "You don't care about me, I don't care about you".
4) Writing skills don't matter anymore, and there's nobody at the agency or at the client's office or anywhere to say "wait a minute, this text doesn't put you to sleep, it's good, short, precise".
So, instead of reading a good instruction "Inject the patient's arm with the drug" or something, we read with horror "Effectuate the infusion of the medicinal treatment inside the patient's hand". That's how the crappy Greek sentence I just edited back-translates, and it sounds that bad both in Greek and in English. But the PM doesn't know, can't be convinced without spending time and money, and the client probably never reads the text anyway.
5) The largest agencies (combined they control 90% of the market) change PMs so often, that no PM has long enough experience with translators. People working 24/7 with a busy company for 10+ years and they are ignored by the new PM, in favor of someone who just got in because they lost their job in retail. But they have (or can buy) a few certificates from private "industry organizations". Then they fill up a resume with completely useless credentials ("Seminars I've attended", "That time I translated 10 pages for the Ministry of Finance", "Sworn translator here, the other ones are atheists"), and the department head gets impressed. Since most translations are of very low visibility (nobody ever reads them), and done mostly for regulatory purposes or "to get an idea of what the source means", don't expect change for the better. Finally, reduced rates that mimic minimum per hour pay but without benefits (in the US at least) don't help either.
| | | | S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 12:54
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER
Tony Keily wrote:
...this sounds like a severe neurotic disturbance. I wrap things up at around 4 p.m. and stay physically and mentally AFK until about eight the next morning. Translation's not going to make me rich so it might as well keep me happy.
I've developed insomnia since Covid. Apart from my other health issues. I killed time improving my vocabulary.
Also, the online school system failed me, so I had to often serve as a substitute home teacher for my daughter.
| | | | S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 12:54
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER
Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
So, instead of reading a good instruction "Inject the patient's arm with the drug" or something, we read with horror "Effectuate the infusion of the medicinal treatment inside the patient's hand". That's how the crappy Greek sentence I just edited back-translates, and it sounds that bad both in Greek and in English. But the PM doesn't know, can't be convinced without spending time and money, and the client probably never reads the text anyway.
5) The largest agencies (combined they control 90% of the market) change PMs so often, that no PM has long enough experience with translators. People working 24/7 with a busy company for 10+ years and they are ignored by the new PM, in favor of someone who just got in because they lost their job in retail. But they have (or can buy) a few certificates from private "industry organizations". Then they fill up a resume with completely useless credentials ("Seminars I've attended", "That time I translated 10 pages for the Ministry of Finance", "Sworn translator here, the other ones are atheists"), and the department head gets impressed. Since most translations are of very low visibility (nobody ever reads them), and done mostly for regulatory purposes or "to get an idea of what the source means", don't expect change for the better. Finally, reduced rates that mimic minimum per hour pay but without benefits (in the US at least) don't help either.
Oh, I can truly relate to the above...
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S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 12:54
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER | The market now | Sep 17, 2021 |
I've seen requests for MTPE.
I've seen "translators" claiming to translate FROM English, yet writing pretty poorly IN English. A long time ago, a proz-ian told me that since he is translating FROM English, it's not mandatory that he know English well. I was baffled.
I've seen Indian or Pakistani "translators" claiming to offer translations into several European languages for as low as 0.01 USD/word. And advertising themselves as leading "a team of translators".
*********... See more I've seen requests for MTPE.
I've seen "translators" claiming to translate FROM English, yet writing pretty poorly IN English. A long time ago, a proz-ian told me that since he is translating FROM English, it's not mandatory that he know English well. I was baffled.
I've seen Indian or Pakistani "translators" claiming to offer translations into several European languages for as low as 0.01 USD/word. And advertising themselves as leading "a team of translators".
**********
I passed 3 translation tests not long ago. With 3 national publisher's houses. Unfortunately, their contractual terms didn't suit me. The rate wouldn't have paid my bills, plus, no upfront payment accepted. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
| You're mistaken | Sep 17, 2021 |
There's really absolutely no need whatsoever to have perfect grammar and good composition skills in your source language.
Translation is about fast and accurate pattern recognition + stubborn research skills for when that fails you. For technical translation, an even bigger part is knowing target language terminology (= the POSSIBLE answers to questions you may encounter).
None of that involves being particularly articulate in the opposite direction.
PS als... See more There's really absolutely no need whatsoever to have perfect grammar and good composition skills in your source language.
Translation is about fast and accurate pattern recognition + stubborn research skills for when that fails you. For technical translation, an even bigger part is knowing target language terminology (= the POSSIBLE answers to questions you may encounter).
None of that involves being particularly articulate in the opposite direction.
PS also, you can make ~$2k/week off MTPE if you're a rabid workaholic.
Sorana_M. wrote:
I've seen requests for MTPE.
I've seen "translators" claiming to translate FROM English, yet writing pretty poorly IN English. A long time ago, a proz-ian told me that since he is translating FROM English, it's not mandatory that he know English well. I was baffled.
I've seen Indian or Pakistani "translators" claiming to offer translations into several European languages for as low as 0.01 USD/word. And advertising themselves as leading "a team of translators".
**********
I passed 3 translation tests not long ago. With 3 national publisher's houses. Unfortunately, their contractual terms didn't suit me. The rate wouldn't have paid my bills, plus, no upfront payment accepted.
[Edited at 2021-09-17 20:29 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-09-17 20:30 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 12:54
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER | Nope, not here | Sep 17, 2021 |
Adieu wrote:
There's really absolutely no need whatsoever to have perfect grammar and good composition skills in your source language.
That's not how things work in Romania, @Adieu. When I was in school, ALL of my language teachers demanded perfect grammar and good composition skills in both English and Romanian. French too, as that was my second foreign language. They specifically insisted on this in both high school and college. I passed my BA exam using these two languages, both written and spoken. My degree paper was in English, you had to write it in either English or French or another second language. It was graded as perfect - 10.
See, I have a sworn translator's authorization issued by the Ministry of Justice in Romania. I wouldn't have been issued this authorization IF my studies hadn't proven what I just wrote.
At present, receiving such an authorization implies taking an exam comprising two tests: English (or another foreign language) into Romanian and Romanian into English (or another foreign language) - and passing both tests with a minimum grade of 7. Each test costs 400 RON (Romanian lei).
You can also take an exam with the Ministry of Culture IF you don't want to be a sworn translator. You receive a certificate stating your translating abilities in such fields as Medicine or Literature, for example.
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