between 60% and 75% of the global population can speak more than one language Thread poster: Tom in London
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:45
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| | Nothing to celebrate | Dec 12, 2022 |
Current estimates* suggest that only around 86% of the world's population aged 15 and above are literate, so there must be significant overlap between those who can supposedly 'speak more than one language at a useful level' (as per the criterion used by the article's author) and those who cannot read and write their own native language (not to mention their ability to speak, read and/or write a second/foreign language).
So, what drives people - of all ages, including young children... See more Current estimates* suggest that only around 86% of the world's population aged 15 and above are literate, so there must be significant overlap between those who can supposedly 'speak more than one language at a useful level' (as per the criterion used by the article's author) and those who cannot read and write their own native language (not to mention their ability to speak, read and/or write a second/foreign language).
So, what drives people - of all ages, including young children (approx. 25% of the global population**) - to gain the ability to speak a second or third language? Two drivers, amongst many others that are similarly distressing to those involved, come immediately to mind:
- National governments that do not - or very often will not - provide schooling in the native languages of ethnic minorities, thereby forcing them to learn the state-approved language(s) - many of which were imposed decades or centuries ago by colonial powers from Europe and are still actively promoted by alien institutions such as the British Council. The down-side to this is the gradual disappearance of many of those ethnic-minority languages.
- Huge numbers of people - often entire families - have to flee their homelands to escape war, famine, persecution, discrimination and other afflictions, and end up in countries where if they don't learn the language they will go hungry, find no accommodation, be unable to find work, ... Hunger is no doubt a strong incentive to learn some basic survival phrases, but hardly qualifies as 'speaking more then one language'.
Given the price many folk pay to contribute their 'gifts' to the English language, I find the article more than a little obnoxious.
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* See for example:
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SE.ADT.LITR.ZS
https://ourworldindata.org/literacy
** https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.0014.TO.ZS
Edited to correct typo pointed out by Thomas.
[Edited at 2022-12-12 14:57 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:45
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Jennifer Levey wrote:
I find the article more than a little obnoxious.
Thanks for letting us know your feelings.
My own reaction was "why English"?
| | | | | >86% literate | Dec 12, 2022 |
Jennifer Levey wrote:
Current estimates* suggest that around 86% of the world's population aged 15 and above are illiterate,
According to your own links, over 86% are literate, not illiterate. At least the percentage is steadily increasing.
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Modern Danish has given 'hygge' and 'ombudsman' to English. In return, it got management speak such as 'proaktiv', 'empowerment', 'benchmark' and 'compliance'😂
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 15:45
Spanish to English
+ ...
Thomas T. Frost wrote:
Modern Danish has given 'hygge' and 'ombudsman' to English. In return, it got management speak such as 'proaktiv', 'empowerment', 'benchmark' and 'compliance'😂
Unfortunately, most people in the UK will pronounce it "higgy"...
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Thomas T. Frost wrote:
Modern Danish has given 'ombudsman' to English.
The Swedes might beg to differ; you don't even spell it right
Neil Mac wrote:
Unfortunately, most people in the UK will pronounce it "higgy"...
Good luck pronouncing anything correctly in Danish
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:45
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER | That's nothing | Dec 13, 2022 |
neilmac wrote: Unfortunately, most people in the UK will pronounce it "higgy"...
That's nothing. Here in England you will hear people ordering something called a "lat-tay".
They mean the Italian word "latte", which means "milk". The accent is on the "a". If you want a "lat-tay" in Italy, you need to order a "caffè latte". If you order a "lat-tay" (and if the bar staff understand you) you may be served a glass of milk.
[Edited at 2022-12-13 12:32 GMT]
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| Loans and borrowings | Dec 17, 2022 |
This article made me think, by analogy, on all the words picked by (European) Portuguese. The basic vocabulary of Portuguese comes from vulgar and classical Latin, as well as Greek. From the VIIIth century until the end of the Middle Ages, Arabic played a major role in the Iberian Peninsula, contributing about 1,000 words that are common in modern Portuguese. In the course of the colonial expansion, Portuguese came into contact with several African and Asian languages from which it borrowed word... See more This article made me think, by analogy, on all the words picked by (European) Portuguese. The basic vocabulary of Portuguese comes from vulgar and classical Latin, as well as Greek. From the VIIIth century until the end of the Middle Ages, Arabic played a major role in the Iberian Peninsula, contributing about 1,000 words that are common in modern Portuguese. In the course of the colonial expansion, Portuguese came into contact with several African and Asian languages from which it borrowed words, which are mostly noticeable in Portuguese slang, as are also words of Gypsy origin (this would deserve to be studied, maybe some Master student would like to do a thesis on the reasons why Portuguese slang is filled with words of Gypsy and African origins but not the standard language). More recently, contact with other European languages, especially English, and to a lower extent French, led to borrowings in several fields, some more successfully than others (I’m thinking of the ugly “empoderamento”…). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kaspars Melkis 
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:45
English to Latvian
+ ...
| it is not surprising that most people are not monolingual | Dec 17, 2022 |
In the Soviet sphere most people spoke Russian besides their native languages. In the European Union English is the most popular second language. Many Indians also speak English to some degree besides their native languages. In Africa many people also speak some trade language like Swahili.
The proficiency varies from almost perfect to barely being able to do shopping in the market. Nevertheless, most children in the world absorbs the idea of existence of different languages quite e... See more In the Soviet sphere most people spoke Russian besides their native languages. In the European Union English is the most popular second language. Many Indians also speak English to some degree besides their native languages. In Africa many people also speak some trade language like Swahili.
The proficiency varies from almost perfect to barely being able to do shopping in the market. Nevertheless, most children in the world absorbs the idea of existence of different languages quite early in their lives. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:45
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER | My first effort at actually accomplishing something in Italian | Dec 17, 2022 |
Kaspars Melkis wrote:
..... barely being able to do shopping in the market
We were in Florence. My Florentine girlfriend said "do you want me to cook dinner tonight?"
"Yes please!"
"OK you need to go to the butcher's to buy some minced beef".
"!!!!!"
"you need to say 'un etto di carne macinata'"
So off I went to the butcher's, terrified.
I said "un etto di carne macinata"
And he served it to me.
And we had dinner.
Would others like to tell us about their first experience of actually doing something practical in a second language?
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My first effort was less successful and not funny at all! In 1985 when I decided to move to Brussels, I spoke a rather good French but I was pretty ignorant of a lot of everyday stuff. So, in the beginning my food shopping was always done in the supermarket where I could see what I wanted without having to ask for it. I must also say that by then in Lisbon (where I am from) we had no kosher or halal butchers. One day, believing that I was knowledgeable enough to make my shopping in French I went... See more My first effort was less successful and not funny at all! In 1985 when I decided to move to Brussels, I spoke a rather good French but I was pretty ignorant of a lot of everyday stuff. So, in the beginning my food shopping was always done in the supermarket where I could see what I wanted without having to ask for it. I must also say that by then in Lisbon (where I am from) we had no kosher or halal butchers. One day, believing that I was knowledgeable enough to make my shopping in French I went to a butcher shop near my apartment without remarking that it was a Muslim butcher to buy… pork! I don't flush easily, but I'll bet I was crimson when I realized what I had done… ▲ Collapse
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