| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Weighted (reduced) word count Thread poster: Iuliana Bozkurt
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Iuliana Bozkurt 
Romania
Local time: 08:33
Member (2008)
English to Romanian
+ ...
Hi everybody,
for a couple of weeks I have been facing a rather interesting (for the agency), but frustrating (for the translator) new way of calculating the overall rate for a project. I am just curious whether this is my own impression or some other colleagues have recently faced this issue too.
Basically: agency X no longer wants to use the traditional charging grid, where you get paid 100% of your per word rate for no matches and various percentages for fuzzies and ... See more Hi everybody,
for a couple of weeks I have been facing a rather interesting (for the agency), but frustrating (for the translator) new way of calculating the overall rate for a project. I am just curious whether this is my own impression or some other colleagues have recently faced this issue too.
Basically: agency X no longer wants to use the traditional charging grid, where you get paid 100% of your per word rate for no matches and various percentages for fuzzies and 100% matches. Instead, they MTPE the entire document and calculate your fee based on how much you CHANGE an existing segment. All this is based on estimates, for example they believe that in one given sentence you will only change 2 letters, maximum one word, therefore they only pay you for that word that you changed.
The wonderful effects of this new system: you receive a heads-up from the PM: Hi, dear translator, I will have a 10,000 weighted word project to assign to you. 5 business days. You think: ”OK, I can MTPE 2000 words per day, so it is feasible.” Ta-dam! You get the project and... the volume is double!!! The PM says: ”Yes, but those extra words... well, we believe you won't need to work on them, they are words that you won't need to touch. Just to read.” As, obviously, you read an entire sentence, you cannot possibly guess what word they think you will need to update. I hope you are following me here and my example makes sense.
This being said, I am not sure whether this is the direction our industry is heading towards, but what I can say is that I find myself working waaaay more and earning waaaay less under this new system.
Anyone there in the same situation? Am I missing something here and, actually, we should be happy about this system?
Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts and input with me!
Iuliana ▲ Collapse
| | | | Stepan Konev
Russian Federation
Local time: 08:33
English to Russian
| If you find yourself | Aug 16, 2021 |
working more and earning less, then why on earth you accept MTPE projects? Do they hold a gun against your head so that you have to accept those projects? When you accept an MTPE project, you help set the rates as low as possible. Why do you complain now that it was your free will to accept that?
| | | | | You are not missing anything... | Aug 16, 2021 |
they've found a way of getting more work done for less money. Dump them... 
[Edited at 2021-08-16 11:41 GMT]
| | | | Iuliana Bozkurt
Romania
Local time: 08:33
Member (2008)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | You are not getting my point | Aug 16, 2021 |
First and foremost, I am not looking for judgement here. I took a course in MTPE and I actually enjoy doing that. There are so many people out there who are MTPE specialists. I am not here to debate that. My point was the weighted word count. If you read my post carefully, you will see that I am not at all complaining about MTPE (I charge the same for MTPE as for new words, by the way). It is just this new system applied to MTPEs and I am looking to find out whether other MTPE specialists are ha... See more First and foremost, I am not looking for judgement here. I took a course in MTPE and I actually enjoy doing that. There are so many people out there who are MTPE specialists. I am not here to debate that. My point was the weighted word count. If you read my post carefully, you will see that I am not at all complaining about MTPE (I charge the same for MTPE as for new words, by the way). It is just this new system applied to MTPEs and I am looking to find out whether other MTPE specialists are happy with WWC (weighted word counts) or not. If yes, why? If not, also why? Thanks! ▲ Collapse
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Iuliana Bozkurt
Romania
Local time: 08:33
Member (2008)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: they've found a way of getting more work done for less money. Dump them... [Edited at 2021-08-16 11:41 GMT]
Well, Giovanni, you can earn the same amount of money, please see above. I am just talking about this latest MTPE trend, WWC.
| | | | | Too extreme... | Aug 16, 2021 |
if they don't want to touch segments, then they should lock them, not ask you to read them - which working for free. That's not ethical. I wouldn't be happy. So, as far as the MTPE way of doing things, I don't think it's fair at all. But you should also ask yourself the question: do I really want to work more for less money?
| | | | | Sorry... I'm not getting it... | Aug 16, 2021 |
Iuliana Bozkurt wrote:
I am just talking about this latest MTPE trend, WWC.
with what are you earning the same money? With the previous way? In comparison to what? I'm confused...
| | | | | Let's not accept this! | Aug 16, 2021 |
You say "This being said, I am not sure whether this is the direction our industry is heading towards..."
I'd say: don't work for companies using this and comparable schemes to prevent paying their translators a reasonable, well-earned rate.
If translators would stop accepting these practices, maybe we can prevent (or at least delay) the industry to move in this direction.
I have heard of one company doing this, and this is a big company with, unfortunately, quite... See more You say "This being said, I am not sure whether this is the direction our industry is heading towards..."
I'd say: don't work for companies using this and comparable schemes to prevent paying their translators a reasonable, well-earned rate.
If translators would stop accepting these practices, maybe we can prevent (or at least delay) the industry to move in this direction.
I have heard of one company doing this, and this is a big company with, unfortunately, quite low ethics in this regard.
You'll probably end up working too many hours for the money they pay you, or you only give them what you pay for (you change only the amount of words they think you will change) and deliver substandard quality... Either way it seems like the wrong direction to me.
[Bijgewerkt op 2021-08-16 13:13 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Stepan Konev
Russian Federation
Local time: 08:33
English to Russian
| Weighed word concept | Aug 16, 2021 |
exists as long as CAT tools do. For example, you can see the Net Rate line in a Memsource word count report, which is exactly the same weighed word count in different words. The weighed word count is just another way to count fuzzy matches. It reflects the average count of different fuzzy match levels.
Fuzzy match word count:
100% match — 100 words (=0 ww)
95% fuzzy match — 100 words (=5 ww)
50% fuzzy match — 100 words (=50 ww)
New words — 100 words ... See more exists as long as CAT tools do. For example, you can see the Net Rate line in a Memsource word count report, which is exactly the same weighed word count in different words. The weighed word count is just another way to count fuzzy matches. It reflects the average count of different fuzzy match levels.
Fuzzy match word count:
100% match — 100 words (=0 ww)
95% fuzzy match — 100 words (=5 ww)
50% fuzzy match — 100 words (=50 ww)
New words — 100 words (=100 ww)
Weighed word count:
0+5+50+100 = 155 words
It is not new at all. Hardly it is fair, but still not new.
[Edited at 2021-08-16 13:18 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Iuliana Bozkurt
Romania
Local time: 08:33
Member (2008)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I think we are referring to the same agency | Aug 16, 2021 |
Renée van Bijsterveld wrote:
You say "This being said, I am not sure whether this is the direction our industry is heading towards..."
I'd say: don't work for companies using this and comparable schemes to prevent paying their translators a reasonable, well-earned rate.
If translators would stop accepting these practices, maybe we can prevent (or at least delay) the industry to move in this direction.
I have heard of one company doing this, and this is a big company with, unfortunately, quite low ethics in this regard.
Yes, I know who you are talking about and they are the only ones doing this. Normally, I am happy with MTPE jobs. Usually, I earn the same, but in less time, so I think this is a good trend. Despite what many may think, MTPE is not making us lose business. On the contrary, we become some sort of specialized proofreaders. Things get nasty when MTPE is pushed to the extreme and you are no longer paid per word, but basically per... letter? Or, at best, by modified word. I am glad someone else shares my view, WWC is indeed ”unethical MTPE”.
| | | | | Payment by changed letters | Aug 16, 2021 |
also happens with 'regular translations' with some tools, where for instance the full segment Black is seen as a 60% match of the segment Back.
If you enjoy MTPE, go for it, but I would not accept this new policy. You'll end up paying to translate for them (which you probably already do, because you are using their tool).
| | | | Iuliana Bozkurt
Romania
Local time: 08:33
Member (2008)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I was not exactly specific... | Aug 16, 2021 |
Stepan Konev wrote:
exists as long as CAT tools do. For example, you can see the Net Rate line in a Memsource word count report, which is exactly the same weighed word count in different words. The weighed word count is just another way to count fuzzy matches. It reflects the average count of different fuzzy match levels.
Fuzzy match word count:
100% match — 100 words (=0 ww)
95% fuzzy match — 100 words (=5 ww)
50% fuzzy match — 100 words (=50 ww)
New words — 100 words (=100 ww)
Weighed word count:
0+5+50+100 = 155 words
It is not new at all.
[Edited at 2021-08-16 13:13 GMT]
Let me provide some further details: so, in my case here, weighted word count applies only to MTPE jobs. I normally charge almost the same for traditional translation and MTPE jobs. The rate per word is only slightly lower when I do MTPE. BUT things get nasty when agencies want to further decrease your MTPE rate, by calculating what percentage of the sentence you actually change. Let's say I have a 300 word MTPE job. Let's say I charge 6 cents/word. This is a 18 EUR job. I get paid this fee irrespective of how many changes I make. Now, with this WWC stuff, they calculate the exact number of changes I make. So, I change 30 words, meaning 10% of the entire word count. I understand your example above, but I don't think it applies to my situation here. I guess you were referring to CAT grids. So, coming back to my example, under these new circumstances, I only get paid 1.8 EUR. My question was whether the ones who actually work with this WWC system are in the same boat. Of course, I was unaware of this and initially I accepted such a job but, after earning only a portion of what I should have earned for MTPE, I just realized this is a big BS. I am very upset because this very big agency will be implementing this system to all their jobs, in the near future. And the end client is a multinational giant. Where is the ethics in that? We work for peanuts and others make billions. I was just looking to find out whether someone else managed to somehow negotiate this stuff or maybe there is some productivity gain for us that I am unaware of. I am very new to WWC and I am trying to figure it out...
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Renée van Bijsterveld wrote:
You say "This being said, I am not sure whether this is the direction our industry is heading towards..."
I'd say: don't work for companies using this and comparable schemes to prevent paying their translators a reasonable, well-earned rate.
If translators would stop accepting these practices, maybe we can prevent (or at least delay) the industry to move in this direction.
I have heard of one company doing this, and this is a big company with, unfortunately, quite low ethics in this regard.
You'll probably end up working too many hours for the money they pay you, or you only give them what you pay for (you change only the amount of words they think you will change) and deliver substandard quality... Either way it seems like the wrong direction to me.
[Bijgewerkt op 2021-08-16 13:13 GMT]
They only pay you for 2 word if you change 2 words in a segment? They don't apply fuzzies? Meaning, the segment is MT-translated and you change 2 words and they pay you for 2 words? The segment is not treated as a 95-99% fuzzy match? If that's the case, it's robbery...
| | | | Iuliana Bozkurt
Romania
Local time: 08:33
Member (2008)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Happily I don't pay for their tool... | Aug 16, 2021 |
Renée van Bijsterveld wrote:
also happens with 'regular translations' with some tools, where for instance the full segment Black is seen as a 60% match of the segment Back.
If you enjoy MTPE, go for it, but I would not accept this new policy. You'll end up paying to translate for them (which you probably already do, because you are using their tool).
In this case, I am not sure we are referring to the same agency. Happily their SW can be used FOC. At least for now. It seems all of the respondents here agree that this practice is terrible and unethical. No one mentioned anything about productivity gain. So it seems my impression was right. Bye-bye WWC!
| | | | | I do think it's the same | Aug 16, 2021 |
agency, but may be you don't pay for the MTPE tool (I don't do MTPE), but for their 'conventional' translations there used to be a paid subscription tool.
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